1
00:00:06,190 --> 00:00:02,310
this is ross coulthard and you are

2
00:00:12,629 --> 00:00:06,200
listening to that ufo podcast

3
00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:15,030
hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

4
00:00:19,269 --> 00:00:16,960
podcast my name is andy and i am

5
00:00:21,029 --> 00:00:19,279
delighted for his long overdue first

6
00:00:22,630 --> 00:00:21,039
appearance on the podcast we have the

7
00:00:25,509 --> 00:00:22,640
creator of the black vault the

8
00:00:27,429 --> 00:00:25,519
blackvault.com author researcher and i

9
00:00:29,429 --> 00:00:27,439
think most importantly a father of two

10
00:00:31,189 --> 00:00:29,439
young children very similar to myself

11
00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:31,199
i've got john greenwald john welcome to

12
00:00:34,470 --> 00:00:32,960
the podcast thank you thank you i

13
00:00:36,630 --> 00:00:34,480
appreciate that

14
00:00:38,389 --> 00:00:36,640
it's uh it's really cool timing because

15
00:00:41,110 --> 00:00:38,399
as we record this it's the 12th of

16
00:00:44,069 --> 00:00:41,120
august just going 7 p.m in the uk 11 a.m

17
00:00:46,630 --> 00:00:44,079
pacific your time the the calvin photo

18
00:00:48,310 --> 00:00:46,640
has just dropped um it wasn't something

19
00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:48,320
i was going to discuss on the podcast

20
00:00:53,110 --> 00:00:51,760
but we've briefly chatted uh off air on

21
00:00:54,869 --> 00:00:53,120
it and i just thought it might be a good

22
00:00:58,549 --> 00:00:54,879
thing to bring up quickly because when

23
00:01:00,069 --> 00:00:58,559
this goes out on monday the 15th of

24
00:01:01,670 --> 00:01:00,079
august people will have seen this it's

25
00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:01,680
already been retweeted by joe rogan's

26
00:01:05,590 --> 00:01:03,680
twitter account um it's been picked up

27
00:01:07,590 --> 00:01:05,600
by various news outlets already and i'm

28
00:01:09,350 --> 00:01:07,600
sure that'll go a bit wider spread the

29
00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:09,360
calvine photo i'm sure is one you know

30
00:01:13,270 --> 00:01:10,640
you know very well you've been in this

31
00:01:15,510 --> 00:01:13,280
game a long time um it's a photograph

32
00:01:18,950 --> 00:01:15,520
that was allegedly taken in scotland in

33
00:01:21,670 --> 00:01:18,960
the early 90s of a ufo nick pope has has

34
00:01:24,230 --> 00:01:21,680
built a lot of his career around the

35
00:01:26,630 --> 00:01:24,240
myth of this photograph as he famously

36
00:01:28,710 --> 00:01:26,640
had it on his desk apparently and it was

37
00:01:30,789 --> 00:01:28,720
taken away but since seen the the black

38
00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:30,799
and white negative come out and just

39
00:01:35,990 --> 00:01:32,960
today my colleagues at uap media

40
00:01:37,830 --> 00:01:36,000
including vinnie adams and dr david

41
00:01:39,670 --> 00:01:37,840
clarke have managed to release the

42
00:01:41,429 --> 00:01:39,680
original photograph and it shows the

43
00:01:43,590 --> 00:01:41,439
kind of diamond shaped craft from what

44
00:01:45,910 --> 00:01:43,600
we can see with the quality of the photo

45
00:01:47,670 --> 00:01:45,920
followed by a kind of unknown

46
00:01:49,190 --> 00:01:47,680
military aircraft in the background some

47
00:01:51,350 --> 00:01:49,200
of my colleagues are saying they they

48
00:01:52,550 --> 00:01:51,360
assume it's a u.s harrier jet but

49
00:01:54,710 --> 00:01:52,560
they're not quite sure exactly what

50
00:01:56,469 --> 00:01:54,720
making model just again with the quality

51
00:01:58,950 --> 00:01:56,479
um you've seen the photo you've seen the

52
00:02:00,709 --> 00:01:58,960
article uh links in the description what

53
00:02:02,870 --> 00:02:00,719
are your initial thoughts

54
00:02:05,749 --> 00:02:02,880
you know it's great to actually see it

55
00:02:07,510 --> 00:02:05,759
if it really is i'm always skeptical i

56
00:02:08,469 --> 00:02:07,520
know that may come as a surprise to some

57
00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:08,479
people but

58
00:02:12,229 --> 00:02:10,319
whenever something either leaks out or

59
00:02:14,790 --> 00:02:12,239
comes out for the first time

60
00:02:17,270 --> 00:02:14,800
uh i'm i'm always apprehensive to go

61
00:02:19,110 --> 00:02:17,280
this is it um it's not that i'm doubting

62
00:02:21,190 --> 00:02:19,120
anybody who did the research it sounds

63
00:02:23,190 --> 00:02:21,200
all legit but what i did right before

64
00:02:25,510 --> 00:02:23,200
the program and literally as you

65
00:02:27,190 --> 00:02:25,520
mentioned it just dropped like i just

66
00:02:29,030 --> 00:02:27,200
found out about it i would say probably

67
00:02:31,750 --> 00:02:29,040
within the last hour or so

68
00:02:33,350 --> 00:02:31,760
uh but went to to my longtime friend

69
00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:33,360
nick pope and said hey

70
00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:35,120
i know you've seen the real thing can

71
00:02:39,030 --> 00:02:36,800
you comment on it

72
00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:39,040
he also tweeted this comment and i'll

73
00:02:42,550 --> 00:02:40,560
i'll read it just to make sure that i

74
00:02:45,270 --> 00:02:42,560
don't you know um

75
00:02:48,470 --> 00:02:45,280
uh uh misquote him but sure is quote

76
00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:48,480
it's my policy not to comment on leaked

77
00:02:53,110 --> 00:02:50,560
information especially if it might be

78
00:02:55,350 --> 00:02:53,120
classified so until i receive ministry

79
00:02:57,270 --> 00:02:55,360
of defense advice i can neither confirm

80
00:02:59,430 --> 00:02:57,280
nor deny if this is the picture that was

81
00:03:04,149 --> 00:02:59,440
displayed on my office wall when i ran

82
00:03:06,149 --> 00:03:04,159
the mods ufo desk unquote so i've i'm

83
00:03:08,470 --> 00:03:06,159
was asking him if i could tweet that as

84
00:03:10,630 --> 00:03:08,480
well uh and apparently he already did so

85
00:03:13,270 --> 00:03:10,640
i retweeted it right before the program

86
00:03:15,350 --> 00:03:13,280
uh so that being said you know i

87
00:03:17,110 --> 00:03:15,360
have no real doubts up front that it's

88
00:03:19,670 --> 00:03:17,120
not the real photograph but what it

89
00:03:21,350 --> 00:03:19,680
depicts uh is kind of the question mark

90
00:03:23,350 --> 00:03:21,360
are we talking about

91
00:03:26,869 --> 00:03:23,360
proof of alien life this is a smoking

92
00:03:28,869 --> 00:03:26,879
gun or is this a classified piece of

93
00:03:31,750 --> 00:03:28,879
technology from let's say the united

94
00:03:34,550 --> 00:03:31,760
states that was being flown and got

95
00:03:37,190 --> 00:03:34,560
captured on a photograph and the legend

96
00:03:39,030 --> 00:03:37,200
was born ever since so that i don't know

97
00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:39,040
i mean there's a lot of unwritten parts

98
00:03:43,589 --> 00:03:41,440
of this and if this is the photo i hope

99
00:03:45,670 --> 00:03:43,599
that there's a higher resolution if

100
00:03:47,670 --> 00:03:45,680
there's a negative and these answers may

101
00:03:50,630 --> 00:03:47,680
already be out there by the time this

102
00:03:53,030 --> 00:03:50,640
airs um but you know just getting higher

103
00:03:54,630 --> 00:03:53,040
resolution scans what can we figure out

104
00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:54,640
is the negative available that kind of

105
00:03:58,710 --> 00:03:56,080
stuff and go from there but it's

106
00:04:01,190 --> 00:03:58,720
exciting i mean it really is

107
00:04:03,350 --> 00:04:01,200
exciting to finally see it

108
00:04:04,869 --> 00:04:03,360
it's a really interesting image and if

109
00:04:05,990 --> 00:04:04,879
you don't mind i asked you before we

110
00:04:08,229 --> 00:04:06,000
recorded

111
00:04:10,470 --> 00:04:08,239
just in explaining the

112
00:04:13,270 --> 00:04:10,480
the process is how this could come out

113
00:04:15,670 --> 00:04:13,280
in this photograph now allegedly um well

114
00:04:18,150 --> 00:04:15,680
we know it was taken by two to three

115
00:04:19,990 --> 00:04:18,160
individuals in scotland in the early 90s

116
00:04:22,230 --> 00:04:20,000
the story goes they were just in a place

117
00:04:24,150 --> 00:04:22,240
that for one reason or another happened

118
00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:24,160
to have this object fly by they weren't

119
00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:25,680
there expecting it they weren't

120
00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:27,440
government individuals they were no one

121
00:04:31,110 --> 00:04:29,680
special they just happen to be in the

122
00:04:32,629 --> 00:04:31,120
right place at the right time or the

123
00:04:34,950 --> 00:04:32,639
wrong place at the right time depending

124
00:04:37,430 --> 00:04:34,960
how you want to look at it the story

125
00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:37,440
goes again that the the

126
00:04:40,710 --> 00:04:38,960
the negatives and the photographs are

127
00:04:41,990 --> 00:04:40,720
sent onto the daily record in scotland

128
00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:42,000
which is one of the big tabloid

129
00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:44,800
newspapers there's not many of them and

130
00:04:49,430 --> 00:04:46,880
from there it went missing and ever

131
00:04:51,590 --> 00:04:49,440
since it's never been seen again now if

132
00:04:53,749 --> 00:04:51,600
this is an individual's photograph like

133
00:04:56,390 --> 00:04:53,759
we're going to assume for now that it is

134
00:04:58,230 --> 00:04:56,400
and it was it was published

135
00:05:00,070 --> 00:04:58,240
why couldn't nick pope speak on it why

136
00:05:02,469 --> 00:05:00,080
do you think nick may be saying that

137
00:05:03,909 --> 00:05:02,479
it's classified when it's someone's

138
00:05:05,510 --> 00:05:03,919
personal property and this was something

139
00:05:06,950 --> 00:05:05,520
i was i was having you explain to me

140
00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:06,960
because i wasn't sure how that exactly

141
00:05:09,990 --> 00:05:08,160
would work

142
00:05:12,790 --> 00:05:10,000
yeah i'm more familiar with u.s

143
00:05:14,390 --> 00:05:12,800
copyright law versus what it would be

144
00:05:17,430 --> 00:05:14,400
overseas but

145
00:05:19,430 --> 00:05:17,440
in short i'm not too surprised because

146
00:05:21,510 --> 00:05:19,440
you know nick's going to be very very

147
00:05:24,469 --> 00:05:21,520
careful with his previous oaths and

148
00:05:26,950 --> 00:05:24,479
security clearances to not overstep

149
00:05:29,029 --> 00:05:26,960
um i'm speaking more generally and not

150
00:05:30,070 --> 00:05:29,039
necessarily specifically about nick but

151
00:05:31,670 --> 00:05:30,080
when somebody comes out of the

152
00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:31,680
government and they are being asked

153
00:05:35,350 --> 00:05:34,080
about material that was not officially

154
00:05:37,510 --> 00:05:35,360
released

155
00:05:39,189 --> 00:05:37,520
they have to be very careful not to act

156
00:05:41,749 --> 00:05:39,199
like a spokesperson

157
00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:41,759
and uh even though that may not be their

158
00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:43,199
intention

159
00:05:47,909 --> 00:05:45,440
sadly there will be some that might take

160
00:05:50,790 --> 00:05:47,919
it that way and and saying endorsed by

161
00:05:53,029 --> 00:05:50,800
the mod because nick pope said it and we

162
00:05:55,110 --> 00:05:53,039
all know that that's that's not the case

163
00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:55,120
but there are some uh people that might

164
00:05:58,950 --> 00:05:57,120
think that or some journalist that might

165
00:06:01,749 --> 00:05:58,960
print it so it doesn't surprise me that

166
00:06:03,749 --> 00:06:01,759
nick is is being careful

167
00:06:06,309 --> 00:06:03,759
at this point and wants to

168
00:06:08,469 --> 00:06:06,319
uh ask the mod can we talk about this

169
00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:08,479
can we confirm it and then we'll get

170
00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:11,039
hopefully more of nick's feedback but if

171
00:06:15,510 --> 00:06:13,360
it was just taken by somebody else yeah

172
00:06:17,029 --> 00:06:15,520
in a legal sense here in america the way

173
00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:17,039
the copyright would work is that a

174
00:06:22,950 --> 00:06:20,400
former government uh personnel even with

175
00:06:25,430 --> 00:06:22,960
a a clearance could speak about it

176
00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:25,440
because it's not a work of the us

177
00:06:29,830 --> 00:06:27,440
government or the military it's not a

178
00:06:32,710 --> 00:06:29,840
product of that and so their security

179
00:06:35,110 --> 00:06:32,720
clearance does not go in jeopardy by

180
00:06:37,830 --> 00:06:35,120
them talking about what uh let's say

181
00:06:40,469 --> 00:06:37,840
andy or john or bill or whomever took a

182
00:06:42,309 --> 00:06:40,479
picture of so there's a difference there

183
00:06:45,189 --> 00:06:42,319
but i don't blame nick for trying to be

184
00:06:46,629 --> 00:06:45,199
a little bit careful and and uh trying

185
00:06:50,150 --> 00:06:46,639
not to

186
00:06:51,589 --> 00:06:50,160
this is something that really just

187
00:06:53,189 --> 00:06:51,599
unfolded

188
00:06:55,189 --> 00:06:53,199
yeah that that's fair it's literally

189
00:06:57,589 --> 00:06:55,199
just over an hour since it dropped via

190
00:06:59,350 --> 00:06:57,599
the daily mail so as the hours and days

191
00:07:01,110 --> 00:06:59,360
pass by the time this comes out like you

192
00:07:02,390 --> 00:07:01,120
say hopefully we've got some more

193
00:07:04,070 --> 00:07:02,400
information or at least some really

194
00:07:05,749 --> 00:07:04,080
interesting questions off the back of it

195
00:07:06,950 --> 00:07:05,759
but thanks for that john listen let's

196
00:07:08,790 --> 00:07:06,960
get into the interview that i had

197
00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:08,800
planned now um all was an interesting

198
00:07:13,270 --> 00:07:10,960
development and maybe some more as the

199
00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:13,280
days go on from what we hear coming up

200
00:07:19,029 --> 00:07:16,560
john uh you are a massive name in the

201
00:07:21,670 --> 00:07:19,039
ufo topic some people would say you're

202
00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:21,680
quite controversial very skeptical very

203
00:07:26,390 --> 00:07:23,840
outspoken but i think largely people do

204
00:07:28,469 --> 00:07:26,400
tend to respect what you do in the

205
00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:28,479
realms of fire but i want to take you

206
00:07:32,870 --> 00:07:30,400
back before we get there to your

207
00:07:34,870 --> 00:07:32,880
earliest memories of the ufo subject and

208
00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:34,880
do you remember getting what was it

209
00:07:38,870 --> 00:07:37,440
movies was it a tv show was it books or

210
00:07:40,629 --> 00:07:38,880
is it just something that's maybe always

211
00:07:42,870 --> 00:07:40,639
been there

212
00:07:45,749 --> 00:07:42,880
well i've always had the curiosity i

213
00:07:47,589 --> 00:07:45,759
grew up watching the x-files

214
00:07:49,270 --> 00:07:47,599
definitely through my

215
00:07:51,749 --> 00:07:49,280
i would say junior high and high school

216
00:07:53,350 --> 00:07:51,759
years you know x-files was a popular

217
00:07:54,950 --> 00:07:53,360
show and

218
00:07:57,270 --> 00:07:54,960
always loved it i had not started the

219
00:08:00,390 --> 00:07:57,280
black vault at that point never thinking

220
00:08:02,469 --> 00:08:00,400
that i would want to investigate either

221
00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:02,479
government secrets or any aspect of the

222
00:08:07,189 --> 00:08:04,960
paranormal seriously

223
00:08:08,869 --> 00:08:07,199
so i would say that i've had a lifelong

224
00:08:11,350 --> 00:08:08,879
interest always loved sci-fi as well

225
00:08:13,110 --> 00:08:11,360
collected comic books as a kid so i've

226
00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:13,120
always had that interest

227
00:08:18,309 --> 00:08:16,240
but about the age of 15 was when i was

228
00:08:19,990 --> 00:08:18,319
on the internet google wasn't even a

229
00:08:21,830 --> 00:08:20,000
thing back then

230
00:08:25,189 --> 00:08:21,840
uh when i was surfing i learned the

231
00:08:27,430 --> 00:08:25,199
internet not to age myself but on aol

232
00:08:28,629 --> 00:08:27,440
for dos so you know

233
00:08:30,070 --> 00:08:28,639
me too

234
00:08:32,790 --> 00:08:30,080
for the youngsters out there like what

235
00:08:34,709 --> 00:08:32,800
the hell's that but this was you know

236
00:08:36,709 --> 00:08:34,719
kind of the old school internet

237
00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:36,719
and you start getting into these chat

238
00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:39,120
rooms and people talking about ufo stuff

239
00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:41,599
and wasn't underground in a sinister way

240
00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:43,120
but it was just these chat rooms that

241
00:08:47,269 --> 00:08:45,120
you would end up in and my interests

242
00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:47,279
would start to grow and i remember

243
00:08:52,550 --> 00:08:50,240
searching at the time it was alta vista

244
00:08:54,470 --> 00:08:52,560
and alta vista was the search engine

245
00:08:56,230 --> 00:08:54,480
searched in ufos and even at the time

246
00:08:58,630 --> 00:08:56,240
you would get hundreds of thousands of

247
00:09:00,710 --> 00:08:58,640
of hits on ufos but i came across a

248
00:09:03,190 --> 00:09:00,720
website that talked about a four-page

249
00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:03,200
government document uh it's infamously

250
00:09:09,509 --> 00:09:06,160
known as the 1976 iran incident

251
00:09:12,070 --> 00:09:09,519
and you read through this thing in

252
00:09:12,949 --> 00:09:12,080
in my opinion it doesn't read like it's

253
00:09:15,190 --> 00:09:12,959
real

254
00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:15,200
and i thought there's no way that this

255
00:09:20,949 --> 00:09:18,080
ufo sighting or ufo incident i should

256
00:09:23,829 --> 00:09:20,959
say with multiple ufos shutting down two

257
00:09:25,509 --> 00:09:23,839
separate f4 phantom jets uh

258
00:09:27,190 --> 00:09:25,519
was real there's no way that came from

259
00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:27,200
the u.s government so they talked about

260
00:09:30,150 --> 00:09:28,240
this thing called the freedom of

261
00:09:30,949 --> 00:09:30,160
information act they said you can get it

262
00:09:34,150 --> 00:09:30,959
too

263
00:09:36,870 --> 00:09:34,160
if you doubt the legitimacy and likely

264
00:09:38,389 --> 00:09:36,880
it won't cost you anything so being 15

265
00:09:40,470 --> 00:09:38,399
i'm like wow government's going to send

266
00:09:43,750 --> 00:09:40,480
me something for free i'm all over that

267
00:09:45,990 --> 00:09:43,760
and it's a ufo document cool so i did

268
00:09:47,990 --> 00:09:46,000
exactly what they instructed to do

269
00:09:49,750 --> 00:09:48,000
and sure enough weeks later was only

270
00:09:51,670 --> 00:09:49,760
like three or four weeks got this

271
00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:51,680
document in the mail now this was back

272
00:09:54,949 --> 00:09:53,600
in 1996

273
00:10:01,910 --> 00:09:54,959
and i

274
00:10:04,710 --> 00:10:01,920
because now you're not talking about

275
00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:04,720
aol chat rooms or bbs's if anybody

276
00:10:09,269 --> 00:10:07,120
remembers those things and and stories

277
00:10:11,430 --> 00:10:09,279
that were shared but now we're talking

278
00:10:15,110 --> 00:10:11,440
about official us government documents

279
00:10:17,509 --> 00:10:15,120
being sent to me a 15 year old kid

280
00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:17,519
this this was cool and i thought if

281
00:10:21,910 --> 00:10:19,600
there was one document on the internet

282
00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:21,920
there has to be more so i went back to

283
00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:23,680
the internet and searched and searched

284
00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:25,440
didn't find anything

285
00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:27,839
and so i thought you know what

286
00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:29,680
whatever this freedom of information act

287
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,720
thing is

288
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,720
if they sent me one document maybe

289
00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:34,480
though maybe there's more

290
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:37,360
and i started teaching myself how to use

291
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:38,800
the foia

292
00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:40,720
file the requests

293
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,640
go after information

294
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:44,480
and at the same time was teaching myself

295
00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:46,800
how to program an html

296
00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:47,680
and

297
00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:49,519
i thought if i was looking for a website

298
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:51,120
of government documents

299
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:52,880
so so were others there had to be at

300
00:10:56,949 --> 00:10:54,480
least two or three

301
00:10:59,829 --> 00:10:56,959
on the internet so i started building a

302
00:11:01,350 --> 00:10:59,839
website and the original rendition of it

303
00:11:03,509 --> 00:11:01,360
wasn't even called the black vault i

304
00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:03,519
mean i had all sorts of stuff on there

305
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:05,680
ufos was just one section

306
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:08,160
but it became known through the the

307
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:10,240
first couple months as

308
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:12,079
kind of the ufo spot for government

309
00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:13,200
documents

310
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:15,760
and not to go off too much of a tangent

311
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:18,079
but i used to type them in by hand

312
00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:19,920
because i couldn't afford a scanner and

313
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:21,600
scanners were pretty expensive back then

314
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:23,279
and they were flat bed so you would have

315
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:26,240
to go one scan and then two scan and it

316
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:28,240
was you know kind of tedious uh but

317
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:30,320
regardless i couldn't afford one and i

318
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:31,839
had created a

319
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:32,560
a

320
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:54,240
you

321
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:58,480
me a used flatbed and the rest was

322
00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:00,800
history so i started scanning documents

323
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:02,800
so back to your question not to go off

324
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:05,440
on a tangent that's how i started and

325
00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:08,320
that curiosity that i had growing up as

326
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:10,800
a kid and loving comic books and science

327
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,120
fiction and then you know talking on

328
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,040
internet chat rooms and other people

329
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:17,360
having experiences

330
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:19,200
going from that into government

331
00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:21,120
documents my curiosity went through the

332
00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:22,000
roof

333
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:25,279
and i was filing requests 50 at a time

334
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:28,480
100 at a time literally sending them out

335
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:31,440
and most of the agencies at the time you

336
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:32,959
had to mail it in

337
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:35,360
so my dad was buying me postage and then

338
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:37,200
some would take him through email but i

339
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:39,440
would just file these things and get the

340
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:41,760
documents back and put them online

341
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:44,000
and each document i got especially on

342
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:45,519
ufos because i dealt with every

343
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:46,880
government secret

344
00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:50,399
increased my curiosity because that 1976

345
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,200
iran incident was not a stand-alone

346
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:55,839
incident there was so much there to

347
00:13:03,030 --> 00:12:59,120
discover and that's why my curiosity now

348
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:03,040
26 years later hasn't gone down at all

349
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:04,399
but rather

350
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:05,680
up

351
00:13:09,269 --> 00:13:07,200
and it's important that you mention some

352
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:09,279
of those names like alta vista and aol

353
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:11,200
for for the older listeners who not even

354
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,880
old i'm 36 i remember the aol desks um

355
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:16,560
there was no google like you say there

356
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:18,079
was no youtube you couldn't just go

357
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,240
online and look for ufo videos it wasn't

358
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,399
that simple and even back in the very

359
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:24,480
early days of videos online they were

360
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:26,320
very poor quality they could take days

361
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:28,240
to download and it would be a corrupt

362
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:29,600
file and all that kind of stuff i

363
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,680
remember starting over yeah that was at

364
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:33,279
the jackass movie back in the day was

365
00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:35,440
the one i tried to get so there was none

366
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:37,040
of that available so

367
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,399
for you was the goal to get documents to

368
00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:42,240
show you there was some sort of

369
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:44,880
smoking gun proof of alien life ufos

370
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:47,199
really do exist was that what it was or

371
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:49,760
was it just to compile data and collect

372
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:51,279
data

373
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:53,360
it's a great question i'm not entirely

374
00:14:00,790 --> 00:13:58,550
where i really wanted to be i mean if

375
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:00,800
you asked me back then as a 15 and 16

376
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:04,079
year old kid hey do you think in 25 26

377
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,920
years from now you're still going to be

378
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:07,600
running the black vault you're going to

379
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:11,120
have 3.2 million pages online i'd say

380
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:12,480
you're nuts

381
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,680
but

382
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:15,440
that's where i'm at

383
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:17,360
what was i looking for i don't know if i

384
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:19,120
was necessarily looking for the smoking

385
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:20,720
gun because i didn't think that the

386
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:23,199
government would send me the smoking gun

387
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:25,199
what i learned early on was that you

388
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:27,519
were going to get pieces to a puzzle

389
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:29,440
and it was the pieces to the puzzle that

390
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:31,680
you had to figure out how to kind of put

391
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:32,959
them together

392
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,320
and would that create the smoking gun

393
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:38,560
and this day and age i think you see it

394
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:41,040
more than all else in 2022 you followed

395
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,240
you you see it

396
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:44,399
i think more now than you ever have and

397
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:47,920
people want the smoking gun in one video

398
00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:50,880
one photograph one document that's

399
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:53,680
irrefutable and that's it that's gonna

400
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:56,480
convince me and nothing else and i think

401
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,279
with this topic what i've learned over

402
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:01,600
the years is you can't do that you can't

403
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:04,800
expect it nothing is that easy go away

404
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,560
from ufos and you look at some of the

405
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:08,639
most important realms of scientific

406
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:11,120
research you didn't have just one thing

407
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:12,639
that proved the biggest scientific

408
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:15,279
discoveries ever rather you had years of

409
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:18,480
research years of of theories

410
00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:20,720
years of failing thinking that you

411
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,639
understood something but in the at the

412
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:24,320
end of the day you realize not no well

413
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,800
that was a failure you need that to

414
00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:28,800
understand so

415
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:31,519
in that respect what i wanted to do

416
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:33,920
was archive the puzzle pieces because

417
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:35,839
again if i was looking for it so were

418
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:39,199
others and that was the tool we needed

419
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:40,959
now there's nothing wrong with with

420
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:43,600
books or documentaries i've made

421
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:46,480
documentaries for for years on history

422
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:48,320
channel and discovery channel and i've

423
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:49,680
written books

424
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,360
but for me

425
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:53,279
stepping away from that

426
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:56,160
i want the raw material right that raw

427
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:57,759
data the documents that's why on the

428
00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:00,240
black vault yes you'll find my opinions

429
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:02,639
sometimes you'll find editorialized

430
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:05,920
articles sometimes but no matter

431
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:08,160
if you see that or not always the

432
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:10,639
documents are there in full in full i

433
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:13,519
don't edit i don't

434
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:15,440
take out what i don't think you should

435
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:17,839
read or see or what i think you might

436
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,480
not be interested in no i dump

437
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:22,560
everything and that way you have every

438
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:24,639
single puzzle piece and i think that

439
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:26,800
more than all else is what i've wanted

440
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:29,519
to do since day one because wasn't sold

441
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:31,440
on the smoking gun being there and that

442
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:34,000
i was set on finding it but rather i

443
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:36,480
wanted every single puzzle piece there

444
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:39,519
was to create the smoking gun as many as

445
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:42,240
i can get and make sure that you and i

446
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,160
had access to it

447
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:46,720
26 years is an incredible amount of time

448
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,279
to put into any passion or labor of love

449
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:51,680
which was what they started as for it to

450
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:54,560
continue to the level it has now

451
00:17:02,310 --> 00:16:56,000
what is it about

452
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:04,630
some people may not like this this this

453
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:07,520
answer but bear with me for me

454
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:10,640
documents don't lie meaning they are

455
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,720
physical proof that no matter what i

456
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,400
think or what i say

457
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:16,959
i can back it up with a document now of

458
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:19,360
course documents can have lies on them

459
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:22,079
the government can lie to me and and so

460
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,360
on but for me the appeal

461
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:27,600
is that i can go after government

462
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:30,559
documents with a u.s federal law and

463
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:33,200
regulation that allows me to access it

464
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,880
and challenge

465
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:37,200
what a pentagon spokesperson has said to

466
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:40,799
me or what a press conference by

467
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:42,160
the

468
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:44,320
under secretary of defense and what he

469
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:47,039
says you can you can challenge that and

470
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:48,480
some people think well the foia is

471
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:50,000
useless because they won't give you

472
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:51,440
anything that they don't want you to

473
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:54,640
have and to be honest with you i have

474
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:57,600
3.2 million pages overall but thousands

475
00:18:01,510 --> 00:17:59,200
of examples

476
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,520
that they are pieces to the puzzle that

477
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:04,080
they did not want me to have and that i

478
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:06,160
fought through the appeal process and

479
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,000
created legal documents and legal

480
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:10,080
arguments to get these documents

481
00:18:15,029 --> 00:18:12,480
extracted so even though the foia has

482
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,039
its challenges those types of pieces of

483
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:17,760
evidence can come out there and that for

484
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:20,320
me is the appeal because if you really

485
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,120
look at it it's not the government's way

486
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:25,840
of pretending to be transparent

487
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:28,160
but rather it is the government's

488
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:31,520
obligation to answer my request give me

489
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:33,520
the information and that's when i say

490
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:36,080
the the documents don't lie because

491
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:38,240
that is something that you can take as

492
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:41,360
an official piece of evidence and nobody

493
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:43,840
can say otherwise again what's on the

494
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:46,000
document that's up for debate but this

495
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:47,760
is information that didn't come to me

496
00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:50,160
from a leak or didn't come to me from a

497
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:52,640
source that i can't name to you

498
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:55,440
or wasn't in a box that was handed to me

499
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:57,440
in a dark deep underground garage

500
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:58,799
somewhere

501
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:00,640
i just can't tell you who gave it to me

502
00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:02,559
none of those types of stories this is

503
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:05,120
something with cia letterhead cia

504
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:09,280
signatures nsa fbi dia you name it i've

505
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:11,600
gone after it and it's official so for

506
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:13,120
me it adds a different level of

507
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:14,559
legitimacy

508
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:16,320
then the debate comes in of what are we

509
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:18,799
looking at here on the document or on a

510
00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:20,559
particular video

511
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:22,960
and and that takes the debate to a whole

512
00:19:26,909 --> 00:19:25,360
new level one thing i always want to

513
00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:26,919
point out and it's the biggest

514
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:29,840
misunderstanding about me by my

515
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:31,760
biggest haters out there

516
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:36,080
never in 26 years not once have i said

517
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:39,440
that foia was the end-all be-all ever

518
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:42,240
it's not what i use solely

519
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,799
it's just what i use primarily and i

520
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,559
think that that's a big misunderstanding

521
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:48,240
to me because i get that thrown at me a

522
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:49,840
lot while john didn't get it through

523
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:51,679
foia so he doesn't believe it that's not

524
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:53,280
true at all

525
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:55,520
because i have proven actually through

526
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:58,880
foia ironically some of the biggest lies

527
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:00,559
that the government has given out about

528
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:03,760
the ufo topic so uh forgive me for

529
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:05,039
wanting to throw that in there but i

530
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,640
think that that is a misconce

531
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:09,200
misconception about what i do that i

532
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:11,679
just think foia is the end-all be-all

533
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:13,679
never once have i said that and and i

534
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:15,200
put the challenge out there too to some

535
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:17,679
people that just continually lob that

536
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:21,120
that uh mud at me and i go okay give me

537
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:23,600
a quote where have i said anything like

538
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,559
that

539
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:26,400
and of course i never get responses

540
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:27,679
after that but

541
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,919
it's um

542
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:32,080
a misunderstanding but that aside the

543
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,600
appeal for me is that official

544
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:37,679
seal that you can put on that evidence

545
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:39,200
and then it becomes a little bit

546
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,679
irrefutable to a level that you can then

547
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,440
take the next step and start debating

548
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:45,679
okay what is this video what is this

549
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:48,720
photo or what's on this document

550
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:50,720
how does the human element of the foia

551
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:55,990
the overall end result of what you get

552
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:57,840
in terms of documents and by that what i

553
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:59,440
mean is

554
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,600
we can't be sure that regardless of the

555
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:03,120
process there has to be an element

556
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:04,640
element of trust that you have in the

557
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:06,000
individuals that they're sending you

558
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:08,159
what you're asking for

559
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:09,120
and

560
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:11,280
there are there could be i'm going to

561
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,520
say that's very crassly but a box

562
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:15,520
labeled do not send out regardless of

563
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:17,280
for your requests and that's got the

564
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:19,440
really good stuff in it just putting it

565
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:21,360
like that and you're getting all these

566
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:22,799
great documents and they're getting

567
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:24,159
letterheads and it's got little bits of

568
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:25,919
information here and there

569
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:26,960
but

570
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:28,559
is it a trust element that you're

571
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,159
getting exactly what you should be

572
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:32,880
getting again for an example you're

573
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,640
aware of jazz shaw the journalist i

574
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:36,559
think you've spoken to jazz during our

575
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:38,159
interview a couple of months ago he

576
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,159
mentioned how he fired a document that

577
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:42,159
he had in his possession

578
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:44,000
and was told that no such document

579
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:45,520
existed

580
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,520
and again that's an example of you know

581
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:49,120
maybe it was the wording and i'm sure

582
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,640
you've come across that many times

583
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,320
appeal appeal appeal and eventually you

584
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:54,320
get what you want

585
00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:56,080
how does that for you

586
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:57,679
where does that trust come into it that

587
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:59,840
the human element can can derail what

588
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:01,440
you're trying to achieve

589
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:02,799
that's a great question because the

590
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:05,120
human element is often forgotten about

591
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,120
when dealing with the foia that you're

592
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:09,679
dealing with people on the other side

593
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:12,799
and it makes it challenging because

594
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:14,480
you want to believe that they're doing

595
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:17,039
the best job that they can be doing you

596
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:18,720
want to believe that they want to help

597
00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:21,520
you and in many cases they do

598
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:23,120
but in the same respect there's a lot of

599
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:24,640
people that just don't care about

600
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,240
helping you they don't care about their

601
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,799
job or they don't want these ufo

602
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:30,640
documents out or whatever i'm requesting

603
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,000
they don't want them out

604
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:34,159
and you have to have a level of trust

605
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,320
that they're adhering to the law

606
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:38,080
but the great thing about it away from

607
00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:39,600
the human element

608
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:41,600
is that you can challenge it

609
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:43,440
so if you feel that there's a foia

610
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:46,080
officer that is saying hey john

611
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:49,520
sorry pal we got nothing on this uh go

612
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:50,480
away

613
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,000
and i believe

614
00:22:56,549 --> 00:22:54,640
based on evidence that he's wrong

615
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:56,559
that human element becomes irrelevant

616
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:58,240
because then what happens is that

617
00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:00,480
through the law i can then file an

618
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:01,600
appeal

619
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:05,919
that just said hey john i got nothing

620
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:07,760
that goes to what's called an appellate

621
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,080
authority appellate authority

622
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,080
and what they do is they process your

623
00:23:16,870 --> 00:23:14,400
appeal now why is this important it's

624
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:16,880
generally a different office a different

625
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:18,960
person and essentially a different

626
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:21,840
process altogether so that human element

627
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:25,120
that required trust and required belief

628
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,120
in that person that they are trying to

629
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,120
do the best that they can

630
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:30,960
that then if you want to challenge it

631
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:33,600
you can and that there is a process for

632
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,600
another person to come in

633
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:37,760
that in in a lot of cases has a higher

634
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:40,000
security clearance and that they are

635
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:42,000
able to take your appeal and take the

636
00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:44,480
case that you put up to argue it and

637
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:46,400
make a decent a decision

638
00:23:50,549 --> 00:23:48,799
and i can tell you that in

639
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:50,559
numerous cases

640
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:53,840
that that person at the appeal level

641
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:56,159
disagreed with the foia officer and

642
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:58,480
agreed with me and i won the appeal what

643
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:01,039
i call a win it's technically a a grant

644
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:02,640
a granted appeal

645
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:05,360
i call them wins because when you get

646
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:07,120
that person to say john you put up a

647
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:09,440
good case i'm going to send that back to

648
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:11,600
that person who said john i got nothing

649
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:13,440
and they have to reopen the case do it

650
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,240
again

651
00:24:17,909 --> 00:24:16,080
and if they come back and give you the

652
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:17,919
same answer

653
00:24:22,230 --> 00:24:20,799
then you which is pretty rare

654
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,240
but if they give you the exact same

655
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:24,559
answer you can essentially challenge it

656
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:27,840
again or take them to court so there are

657
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:29,919
checks and balances on a system that

658
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:32,320
does rely on the human element a little

659
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,120
bit and trust and belief and hope you

660
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:37,440
know uh crossing our fingers for good

661
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:38,480
luck

662
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:40,880
it it allows you to challenge that and

663
00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:43,039
takes it to a different level which is a

664
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:44,720
good thing so i i hope i understood and

665
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:46,559
answered your question correctly but

666
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:49,440
absolutely it's it's often a very

667
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,200
forgotten about element to foia that

668
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:53,120
there's a human being on the other side

669
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,440
which is why i always try and be as nice

670
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:57,360
as i can but man some of them make it

671
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,799
challenging

672
00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:00,320
i think in general i've tried on the

673
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:01,919
podcast no matter what side of an

674
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:03,440
argument i'm falling down on whether

675
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:05,520
it's talking about foia or the us

676
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:08,000
government or nasa or an organization

677
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:10,080
you're still talking about people and

678
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:12,240
individuals make up these organizations

679
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:13,039
and

680
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:14,640
you talk about the government covered up

681
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:15,679
roswell

682
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:19,919
they're all dead and people carried on

683
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:21,279
from them and people carried on from

684
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:23,600
them and so on and so forth so it's

685
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,200
the human element i think is a massive

686
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:27,200
factor many many people do forget and

687
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:30,159
this do you think in terms of documents

688
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:32,960
you can fire that were talked about that

689
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,600
potential smoking gun that clearly isn't

690
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:37,679
out there for anyone yet

691
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,080
are the very best ufo documents even

692
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:42,240
there to be fired or do you think those

693
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:44,400
are just those are gone locked away kept

694
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,000
away and they're just not part of that

695
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:48,720
process no matter what you request

696
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:51,279
i think there's a level of secrecy that

697
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:53,120
foia is not going to touch not

698
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:54,640
necessarily because the law has a

699
00:25:57,909 --> 00:25:56,960
shortcoming but rather

700
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:57,919
these

701
00:26:03,190 --> 00:26:00,559
heavily guarded secrets are known by

702
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:03,200
only a few so how can the foia start

703
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:06,720
blanketing into these dark dark deep

704
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:10,240
secret caverns of of the cia or the nsa

705
00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:12,720
to start grabbing that material and it's

706
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,279
it's it's um

707
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:17,279
it's a tough question to answer because

708
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:20,000
it's very hard to prove uh the the only

709
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:23,120
thing that you can say uh and that i can

710
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:25,520
prove is that when you look back in time

711
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:27,200
and you look at how many times let's say

712
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:29,200
the nsa i'm getting away from ufos here

713
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:31,919
for a moment but the nsa denied certain

714
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:34,880
things through foia and through press

715
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:37,120
statements and so on let's say like the

716
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:39,679
spying programs and how many times

717
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:42,320
they've lied about that or foia requests

718
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:44,240
that should have brought something up

719
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:46,240
about it but did not and they say hey

720
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:48,320
we've got nothing on this then someone

721
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,080
like edward snowden comes around and

722
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:52,559
says well boom here you go and that

723
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:55,679
completely contradicts from the top down

724
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:57,760
press statements foia responses and so

725
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:00,080
on that's your proof that there is a

726
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:03,200
untouchable arena here but it doesn't

727
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:05,120
mean you can't get close to it it

728
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:07,440
doesn't mean that you can't keep going

729
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:10,000
to that appellate authority or to a

730
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:10,960
judge

731
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:13,919
and it requires then deeper searches by

732
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:16,400
people with higher classifications and

733
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:18,960
yeah if you get lucky you break a big

734
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:21,279
story but for me i think the proof

735
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:22,960
enough is there that there are realms

736
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:24,960
that are going to be untouchable but

737
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:28,480
primarily because there are a select few

738
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:30,799
uh people that know those deepest

739
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:33,039
darkest secrets in some of the most

740
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,919
highly classified arenas that exist

741
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:37,600
someone like yourself like you say there

742
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:39,679
must be many people for you requesting

743
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,000
all sorts of things but you've done it

744
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:44,320
for a long time you're very good at that

745
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:46,720
you must get very close to to that top

746
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,640
level not maybe not the ones you can't

747
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:50,960
get but you know of what's available

748
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:53,360
have you ever been dissuaded or had an

749
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,799
incline you should stop doing what

750
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:56,000
you're doing

751
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:57,039
and we hear about people being

752
00:28:00,310 --> 00:27:58,480
approached or you know knocks on the

753
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:00,320
door men and black type figures if you

754
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:02,640
want to say that but have you ever

755
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,240
felt that you should stop because of

756
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,640
some kind of outside influence

757
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:09,360
i've never had any official

758
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:11,919
request to stop threats to stop knocks

759
00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:14,080
on my door nothing like that

760
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,720
i've talked briefly in the past about

761
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:18,320
death threats that have come in from the

762
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:20,240
general public um

763
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:22,159
last count i think was 19 or 20

764
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:23,440
something like that

765
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:24,880
and

766
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:29,760
legitimate meaning like

767
00:28:32,789 --> 00:28:31,279
you could tell was on a different level

768
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:32,799
of some idiot that was just you know

769
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,799
sending a letter but nothing was ever

770
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,919
official

771
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:38,080
do those things make me kind of take

772
00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:39,919
pause as you mentioned i'm a dad i've

773
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:42,559
got two kids is there some crazy person

774
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:44,880
that's gonna show up on my lawn one day

775
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:47,600
yeah that always makes me concerned

776
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:49,600
but that's the internet for you and

777
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:51,200
dealing with

778
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:53,840
sometimes fringe topics and so on

779
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:55,840
when it comes to official stuff i've

780
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:57,600
never run into that

781
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,799
i i do believe in the need for

782
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:02,480
government secrecy as much as i'm

783
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:04,399
interested in transparency i believe

784
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:06,480
that there is a level of secrecy that

785
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:09,600
has to be kept i come from a family of

786
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:11,840
those that worked in the military and

787
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:14,000
government uh that that

788
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:16,799
were on different levels of secrecy uh

789
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:19,120
my father worked on um

790
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:20,960
he says that he didn't have a security

791
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:22,799
clearance but i'm not sure if i'll find

792
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,240
out one day he did

793
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:26,320
but my dad worked on the space shuttle

794
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:28,960
uh worked on the mars lander uh but also

795
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:31,760
worked on space defense uh initiative

796
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:35,200
programs the sdi program uh which that's

797
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:36,640
where i believe that he would likely

798
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:38,480
have to have a security clearance of

799
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:40,480
some kind all of that is public that's

800
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:42,559
not secret or anything like that

801
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:44,080
but that's the program that they would

802
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:45,679
intercept missiles and stuff like that

803
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,159
my dad worked on uh some of that and

804
00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:50,559
then my grandfather worked on uh highly

805
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:53,360
classified top secret level uh aircraft

806
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,840
missile designs stuff like that sadly i

807
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:57,600
never got to meet him

808
00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:58,399
but

809
00:30:01,269 --> 00:30:00,000
all of that being said what i wanted to

810
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:01,279
do was set

811
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,039
kind of the foundation of why i say

812
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:05,760
there is a level and i support a level

813
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:08,399
of certain amounts of of secrecy i think

814
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:11,360
it has to be kept um but for me i will

815
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:13,120
push and push and push

816
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:15,440
until i can get as much transparency as

817
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:16,399
i can

818
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:17,200
and

819
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:20,320
they will define when i stop i don't

820
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:22,320
believe they will ever have they meaning

821
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:24,080
government military

822
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:26,000
those that work in the shadows they

823
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:27,520
don't have to knock on my door and tell

824
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,760
me to stop because i think that when you

825
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:31,679
get to that level of secrecy that has to

826
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:34,799
be kept and i'll push it as as far as i

827
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:37,279
can until i get there

828
00:30:43,029 --> 00:30:40,480
uh that door will be shut

829
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:43,039
well in advance of me getting it and uh

830
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:44,640
they don't need to tell me they'll do it

831
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,000
themselves

832
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,919
yeah it's disappointing to hear any any

833
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:49,440
guest receives death threats and there's

834
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:51,279
there's plenty of people i've disagreed

835
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:53,039
with in the past john i've disagreed

836
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:55,120
with many of your tweets or opinions or

837
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:57,279
takes on things and everyone's entitled

838
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:58,880
to that mick west being the biggest

839
00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:01,760
naysayer or skeptic online again i've

840
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:03,519
mute mcquest but that's not me going

841
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:04,799
haha i'm hitting the mute button it's

842
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:06,399
just i don't agree with a lot of

843
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:08,000
opinions there's an element of trolling

844
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:09,519
to it as well i think mick enjoys a

845
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:10,960
little bit of what he does and getting a

846
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:12,880
rise out of people it's a british thing

847
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:15,840
so for me just move on and that's that

848
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:17,279
fill your timeline with you know the

849
00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:19,279
news and people you want to see and i'm

850
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:20,960
all for a bit of healthy debate because

851
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:22,399
you know it's nice to see the other side

852
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:23,679
of the fence

853
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:25,120
so it's disappointing like you say when

854
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:26,880
people are going as far as death threats

855
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:28,159
and all that kind of stuff and i would

856
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:29,600
always just give the advice to folks

857
00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:30,399
just

858
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:34,080
to disagree and move on

859
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:36,159
i mean i think that that's different

860
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:38,720
that's the fun part of this topic

861
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:41,519
and it's also the evil side all at once

862
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:44,080
because we ca we shouldn't all agree

863
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:46,320
you know and and i don't expect people

864
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,799
to agree with me but that's the fun of

865
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,880
it we don't have the answers yet you

866
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,039
know um i'm always apprehensive if

867
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,039
people feel they figured it all out i

868
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:57,440
think that once we do figure out what

869
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:00,960
these ufo phenomena are and i use plural

870
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:03,200
i think that it's probably off the mark

871
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:06,000
of what everybody has been talking about

872
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:07,760
you know for years i think that there's

873
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:10,159
a lot of different facets and aspects so

874
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,240
the fun of it is that debate

875
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,480
but it's so easy to get caught up in the

876
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:16,320
evil side of it as well where you just

877
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:18,159
get so passionate

878
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:20,880
uh about what we are believing in and

879
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:23,360
saying and then the aggression starts i

880
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:24,799
mean you just go head to head with

881
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:27,760
people and it escalates so it's a

882
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:30,000
fascinating aspect to the conversation

883
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:31,679
because there are some

884
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:33,600
that sure will get heated and passionate

885
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:36,320
myself included but there is that line

886
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,760
you know that you kind of hit and go i

887
00:32:40,549 --> 00:32:39,600
gotta go take a break you know i'm gonna

888
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:40,559
go

889
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:45,039
kid uh get outside a bit

890
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:48,159
and walk away others can't and and for

891
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:49,039
me

892
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:50,559
it's unfortunate

893
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:52,720
but it's also fascinating that this

894
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:54,480
topic can

895
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:56,640
just grab you

896
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:59,360
and get you to that point where you do

897
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:01,440
get aggressive you know and that you do

898
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:04,080
say things that you wouldn't normally

899
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:05,360
say or do

900
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:06,640
and um

901
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:09,120
so yeah i'm fascinated by the topic from

902
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:11,279
that standpoint as well because

903
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:13,120
it is so much fun

904
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:15,440
but it can be met with such

905
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:18,159
viciousness uh and it's all part of the

906
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,720
same arena and and that's what uh

907
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:23,039
fascinates me about it overall is the

908
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,480
people within it

909
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:26,880
and how everybody reacts to

910
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:29,840
news and stories and stuff like that

911
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,159
one of the more light-hearted enemies i

912
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:34,960
suppose you have would be redactions

913
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:36,880
and i wanted to know do you have any

914
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:38,880
examples of some of the most frustrating

915
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:40,640
redactions you've come across within

916
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:45,830
keeping with the ufo arena i think one

917
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:48,080
of the more fascinating and even more

918
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:51,039
recent would be when i was able to get

919
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:53,279
the office of the director of national

920
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:55,760
intelligence to release a redacted

921
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:58,399
version of the classified uap report

922
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:00,000
from last year

923
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:03,039
and i worked a long time on that i had

924
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:05,440
filed the day after the public

925
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:07,039
version came out i knew that there was a

926
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,960
classified version filed the case that

927
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,320
saturday morning

928
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:12,480
and pushed hard to get it released

929
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:14,399
a lot of people said they would never

930
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:17,760
release any of it i was thankful to get

931
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:21,599
the full 17 page document released

932
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:23,760
a frustrating redaction however were the

933
00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:24,720
shapes

934
00:34:31,349 --> 00:34:29,440
and i i think that me myself sure i was

935
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:31,359
really frustrated at that but i'm a

936
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:33,440
little used to redactions

937
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:36,480
the general public i think was outraged

938
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:39,440
by those redactions and how ludicrous it

939
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:42,000
is that just the mere shape of something

940
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:44,320
is considered classified now for those

941
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:46,000
who don't follow what i do

942
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,800
i have filed an appeal case on that

943
00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:50,800
specifically targeting quite a few

944
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:53,919
redactions uh but the the shapes of the

945
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:57,280
ufos and or uap and uh

946
00:34:59,510 --> 00:34:58,160
um

947
00:35:02,230 --> 00:34:59,520
the the

948
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:02,240
boxes that they had so in my opinion the

949
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:04,000
way i look at it i think what we're

950
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:06,480
gonna find if they do release it are

951
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:09,280
multiple photographs and

952
00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:10,560
um

953
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:12,800
drawings i think i think there's gonna

954
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:13,920
be both

955
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:15,920
and for those who really follow closely

956
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,839
i have an open bet

957
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:19,680
with stephen greenstreet

958
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:21,440
uh and i won't let him forget about it

959
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,599
for a hundred dollars 100 u.s

960
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:26,079
on it will be a combo

961
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:29,599
of of photographs and diagrams but

962
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,000
that's a way for me to kind of like

963
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:34,640
lessen the frustration and made it fun

964
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:36,320
and a challenge to get it you know by

965
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,880
making a bet with stephen greenstreet uh

966
00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:40,560
but regardless that's what i think we're

967
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:43,359
we're gonna find but it's frustrating

968
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:45,760
why won't why what's what is it about a

969
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:48,079
shape was it saucer is it cube is it

970
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:50,000
sphere in a cube or cube in a sphere

971
00:35:54,069 --> 00:35:51,680
whatever the shape is

972
00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:54,079
why can't you tell me at least that and

973
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:56,800
that i think was was pretty frustrating

974
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,200
but hopefully a fight that i will win in

975
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:01,200
the end trying to get an update on that

976
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:04,720
case but i haven't received one yet so

977
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:07,920
that's one example of of a redaction um

978
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:09,920
a lot of names

979
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,839
and this is why these particular

980
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:14,160
redactions are very frustrating

981
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:16,240
when you're reading a document exemption

982
00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:18,000
b6

983
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,119
in the foia is privacy information so if

984
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,760
john greenwald works for the nsa those

985
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:25,200
conspiracies are going to start after

986
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,240
that but if i'm just using my name uh

987
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:30,000
john greenwald works for the nsa and i'm

988
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,040
in an nsa document they will redact my

989
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:35,760
name if somebody requests it so that's

990
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:37,440
exemption b6

991
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:38,560
so

992
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:40,800
when that goes out

993
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,040
when you read names and and you

994
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:45,599
understand when you're reading so and so

995
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:48,000
it's but it's redacted says

996
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,520
whatever

997
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:51,440
you can't follow up on that and those

998
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:53,040
are redactions that you really can't

999
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:54,400
fight

1000
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:59,359
b6 redaction

1001
00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:01,200
and get it released

1002
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:04,400
generally the names will stay redacted

1003
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,200
for decades on top of decades

1004
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:09,520
because they don't want any invasion of

1005
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:11,920
personal privacy

1006
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:14,240
i used an nsa example with my name they

1007
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:16,960
would also use exemption b3

1008
00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:18,640
which is an internal statute that

1009
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,880
protects nsa employees

1010
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:22,800
so why i'm bringing that up is that

1011
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:25,040
doubles the challenge to get those names

1012
00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:27,440
out names are important to do your own

1013
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:29,520
independent investigation

1014
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:30,800
talk to the person who wrote the

1015
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:32,320
document

1016
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,480
see what their experience was

1017
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:36,560
you know what fill in the blank but

1018
00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:38,400
talking to people is the next logical

1019
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:42,160
step to any investigation on any topic

1020
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:44,560
but those redactions through foia you

1021
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:46,640
can't fight them so for me as the

1022
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:49,200
researcher i get probably the most

1023
00:37:53,510 --> 00:37:50,720
frustrated with

1024
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:53,520
uh with name redactions just because you

1025
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:56,079
can't fight it uh second up would be

1026
00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:58,640
national security and national security

1027
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:01,280
included the shapes of uap but also

1028
00:38:06,790 --> 00:38:04,560
that's exemption b1 national security

1029
00:38:09,030 --> 00:38:06,800
those are also very tough to fight but

1030
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,040
at least you can somewhat put up an

1031
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:11,680
argument to try and fight it

1032
00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:13,680
so i would say overall those are going

1033
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,359
to be some of the most frustrating

1034
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:17,520
redactions that you run into because

1035
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,160
they are either incredibly difficult or

1036
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:22,240
impossible to fight

1037
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,320
do you care to speculate or maybe you

1038
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:26,640
know or have a good idea as to why the

1039
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:29,280
shapes were redacted

1040
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,520
i wish i did know uh i'm

1041
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:36,160
it's it would be pure speculation

1042
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:43,349
the shapes could potentially identify

1043
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:44,720
foreign

1044
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,160
but but still unidentified technology

1045
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:50,560
platforms if that makes sense so when

1046
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:52,400
you start

1047
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:54,320
locking in that they're seeing certain

1048
00:39:00,150 --> 00:38:57,359
identifiable shapes then five years from

1049
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:00,160
now we realized that china had a

1050
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:03,280
classified drone of that shape

1051
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:05,760
we now realize that for however many

1052
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:06,720
years

1053
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:09,359
that particular shape i.e a chinese

1054
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:10,320
drone

1055
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,880
was successfully infiltrating u.s

1056
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:14,400
military airspace

1057
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:16,800
and the military couldn't figure it out

1058
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:17,599
so

1059
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:19,520
this is that level of secrecy that i

1060
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:21,359
teeter on the edge of well i want to

1061
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:23,599
know but i kind of understand that we

1062
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:24,800
shouldn't know

1063
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,200
and that is you you

1064
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,000
release your vulnerabilities

1065
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,160
that you are showing the planet

1066
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:34,560
these are our weaknesses

1067
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:37,119
and and yes a shape could potentially

1068
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:38,560
identify that

1069
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,440
so

1070
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:41,760
there are ways to look at this that are

1071
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,079
frustrating but but but you can

1072
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:46,160
understand why they would keep certain

1073
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:49,200
things secret and that would be one way

1074
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:51,040
the other way is if there's a shape of

1075
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,160
something that fits absolutely nothing

1076
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:56,160
then what do you do and i think the

1077
00:39:59,430 --> 00:39:57,839
general public will really start to

1078
00:40:01,270 --> 00:39:59,440
speculate okay

1079
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:01,280
is this proof that there is

1080
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:03,280
extraterrestrial technology in our

1081
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:06,319
airspace which is a big possibility

1082
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:07,520
we don't know

1083
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:11,040
so that in itself is a national security

1084
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:13,520
risk to the united states

1085
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:15,280
because when you start admitting that

1086
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,480
now

1087
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:18,560
not only do you have zero idea what the

1088
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:20,720
technology is but it has been

1089
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:23,520
successfully infiltrating our airspace

1090
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:25,760
without us able to defend ourselves for

1091
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:26,880
decades

1092
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,599
that in itself is a national security

1093
00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:31,680
concern because not only does it release

1094
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:34,000
our vulnerabilities but on top of that

1095
00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:36,160
you're starting to essentially

1096
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:38,960
terrify the american people that you are

1097
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:41,040
no longer in control of your own

1098
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:42,400
airspace

1099
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:45,040
and i think that there's a lot of

1100
00:40:49,589 --> 00:40:47,280
weight to that theory that

1101
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:49,599
alien or not it doesn't matter but the

1102
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:52,160
true national security risk is admitting

1103
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:53,440
you're weak

1104
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:55,920
and that you can't defend yourself

1105
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:58,000
all that i think can be deduced from

1106
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,839
shapes and then it just kind of spirals

1107
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:01,119
from there so

1108
00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:03,839
i still do hope i win that appeal

1109
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:05,680
but there's some speculation on why they

1110
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:06,400
may

1111
00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:10,720
no that's interesting on the breaking

1112
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:12,960
news podcast i done at the time of the

1113
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:14,640
the release and obviously at the release

1114
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:17,280
of your classified um foia that was what

1115
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,880
i had heard as well and spoke about on

1116
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:20,640
the podcast that if there were foreign

1117
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:23,119
adversarial drone technology it may be

1118
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:24,880
one they don't want them to know that

1119
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:26,800
they've got pictures of them but also

1120
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:28,079
like you say there's that element of

1121
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:30,160
weakness and you know we don't know what

1122
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:31,839
these are how they're operating and the

1123
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:33,680
information they're gathering so yeah

1124
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:35,680
it's an interesting one and separately

1125
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:37,760
we do hope secretly there's that and i'm

1126
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:40,160
sure the 15 year old john greenwald has

1127
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:42,000
that inkling of imagine seeing that come

1128
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,599
through and there's a flying saucer

1129
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:45,119
picture or something like that knowing

1130
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:46,560
our luck is going to come back that the

1131
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:48,240
really good ones would be the drawings

1132
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:49,839
which i imagine yeah there's going to be

1133
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,160
some artists impressions which again

1134
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:54,240
would be frustrating but you never know

1135
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:56,079
like the calvin photo make him out

1136
00:42:01,829 --> 00:41:58,960
eventually um i want to ask you john

1137
00:42:03,430 --> 00:42:01,839
people often talk about the core story

1138
00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:03,440
and many people have different versions

1139
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:05,359
of this what for you would be the core

1140
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,200
story when it comes to how

1141
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:09,440
the us government has handled the ufo

1142
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:11,599
subject

1143
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:13,520
the core story isn't

1144
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:14,560
like just

1145
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:16,480
overall how they've handled it

1146
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:17,200
so

1147
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:19,599
or why they've handled it from 1947

1148
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,079
let's go back to the roswell time to now

1149
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:24,400
what do you think they're trying to keep

1150
00:42:29,829 --> 00:42:27,200
from the public is there that element of

1151
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:29,839
at first it was something unknown or is

1152
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:31,440
it something else that's just spiraled

1153
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:34,160
out of control

1154
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:35,839
i think it's kind of all of the above

1155
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:38,720
and then some i think for me i have to

1156
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:42,000
separate pre-2017

1157
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:42,839
and

1158
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:48,240
before 2017

1159
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:51,200
i think for decades i can comfortably

1160
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:53,839
without any shadow of a tout and so can

1161
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:56,720
others prove the ufo cover-up using

1162
00:43:02,150 --> 00:42:59,680
their own evidence using documentation

1163
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,160
disproving press statements going

1164
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:04,960
against their own press uh conferences

1165
00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:08,000
all by using their own documentation

1166
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:10,000
so for me the lie didn't work and that

1167
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:12,640
for me is the core of their story

1168
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:14,480
from 47

1169
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:15,520
on

1170
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:17,920
so even if you ignore roswell i believe

1171
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:20,000
that project blue book enough evidence

1172
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:21,119
exists

1173
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,960
to show that that was not an

1174
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:24,480
investigation

1175
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:26,560
it may have been in the early days

1176
00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:29,280
but rather its intent was to be an

1177
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:32,160
explanation i believe that dr j allen

1178
00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:34,880
heineck was a prime

1179
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:37,359
piece of proof of that that he goes in

1180
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:40,640
there and his job is to debunk i did a

1181
00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:42,640
show for history channel we

1182
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:45,440
really dug in deep on j allen heineck's

1183
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:48,400
life and what his intent was and it was

1184
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:50,800
fascinating to see him as a scientist

1185
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,839
shift

1186
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:53,119
from that hey

1187
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:54,720
there's nothing to this

1188
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,640
ufos are explainable no evidence and

1189
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,880
he'd go in and he'd you know essentially

1190
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,560
debunk

1191
00:44:04,630 --> 00:44:02,400
as the years progressed

1192
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:04,640
more cases came across his desk i

1193
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:06,400
believe it was uh

1194
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,200
delphos or socorro that that ultimately

1195
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:11,280
changed his mind uh i think it

1196
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:14,480
speculated it was socorro but regardless

1197
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:16,240
he had this shift

1198
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:19,040
and that shift was there's something to

1199
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:21,119
this we have to investigate

1200
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,200
and you see that with his actions post

1201
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,119
blue book and he comes out as a

1202
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:27,359
scientist and he and he wants to pursue

1203
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:30,240
the the topic more one of the coolest

1204
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:32,319
discoveries wasn't even through foia but

1205
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,319
that came across my desk

1206
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:36,720
was a researcher by the name of rob

1207
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:37,839
mercer

1208
00:44:44,790 --> 00:44:43,920
essentially surfing ebay and craigslist

1209
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:44,800
for

1210
00:44:49,030 --> 00:44:47,119
ufo memorabilia you know you whatever

1211
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:49,040
ufo stuff he could find

1212
00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:51,040
and to quickly summarize the story rob

1213
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:53,920
had come across this advertisement for

1214
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:56,000
old pro original

1215
00:45:01,990 --> 00:44:58,720
project blue book documents that were

1216
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:02,000
found in a garage in ohio

1217
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:04,079
and so rob like immediately contacts the

1218
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:06,640
person and again summarizing the story

1219
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:08,400
apparently these people had just

1220
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:10,400
purchased a home

1221
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:13,040
bunch of ratty old boxes in the garage

1222
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:15,440
all these documents were inside rob

1223
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:18,160
mercer purchases them tracks down the

1224
00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:20,240
original homeowner who left him there

1225
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:21,520
behind

1226
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:23,200
turns out was one of the original

1227
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,760
project blue book investigators

1228
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:27,200
at the time i believe he was a

1229
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:28,400
lieutenant

1230
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,800
his name was carmen morano

1231
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:32,880
so rob tracks them down

1232
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:34,960
murano still had

1233
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:38,240
material left so he left some behind but

1234
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:39,599
he also took some with him to his new

1235
00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:41,920
home rob goes out gets all that stuff

1236
00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:42,880
too

1237
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:44,319
and

1238
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:46,800
rob brings it back gets in contact with

1239
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:49,760
me i fall in love with the story because

1240
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:51,599
it's awesome it's irrefutable carmen

1241
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:53,920
murano's story checks out you can see

1242
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:55,680
his name in some of the documents not

1243
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:56,880
the ones found in the garage but

1244
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:59,040
official documentation so really kind of

1245
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:00,960
cool stuff so i digitized the whole

1246
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:03,599
thing excuse me um archived the whole

1247
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:05,839
thing rob had digitized the majority of

1248
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:08,160
it and so we put it online okay why am i

1249
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:09,599
telling you that story other than it's

1250
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:11,920
pretty darn cool if you look at those

1251
00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:13,040
documents

1252
00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:16,240
never made it

1253
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:18,800
to the national archives and exist in

1254
00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:21,040
the national archives collection of

1255
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:22,480
project blue book

1256
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:24,960
when you look inside there was original

1257
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:27,599
correspondence from dr j allen heineck

1258
00:46:33,109 --> 00:46:30,480
to at the time hector quintanilla who

1259
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:33,119
was the head of project blue book but on

1260
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:34,800
the military side

1261
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:37,119
and heinek was trying throughout

1262
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,200
multiple letters and you can see his

1263
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:41,200
signature and everything

1264
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:43,680
to get quintanilla to agree to reopen

1265
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:46,319
the cases that they debunked that hynek

1266
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:48,480
had this shift that realized hey

1267
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:51,359
we're this is wrong that we had

1268
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:54,480
are debunking whatever but it's wrong

1269
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:56,960
all of these cases any specifically

1270
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:58,960
named some of them should be reopened

1271
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:01,920
and so on so when you when you look at

1272
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:03,200
that era

1273
00:47:09,910 --> 00:47:06,400
you realize that entire couple decades

1274
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:09,920
from 47 to 69 through grudge sign and

1275
00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:12,640
project blue book was a farce

1276
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:14,720
after project blue book ended a lot of

1277
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:16,960
this evidence comes out we had

1278
00:47:21,990 --> 00:47:19,760
speculation that blue book was a joke

1279
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:22,000
now i think we have proof that it was a

1280
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:22,880
joke

1281
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:24,640
now fast forward through the decades

1282
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:26,319
they lied through their teeth

1283
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,000
but through foia

1284
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:30,559
you can see that every government agency

1285
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:33,280
including the intelligence community had

1286
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:35,760
classified up to top secret documents on

1287
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:38,000
ufos the majority of which shouldn't

1288
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:39,040
exist

1289
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:41,280
if you really dig in they display

1290
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:43,040
technology that we don't have at the

1291
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:45,200
time and in some cases don't even have

1292
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:46,559
today

1293
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:49,520
and you go wow they're saying one thing

1294
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,359
evidence shows another

1295
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:53,680
that's pre 2017

1296
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:56,800
2017 comes around and in my opinion

1297
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:58,319
changes everything

1298
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:00,640
because now aside from the debate of

1299
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:04,000
atip ufos no ufos doesn't really matter

1300
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,520
to the government they had to handle

1301
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:08,160
this uap issue which everybody was

1302
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,119
pushing

1303
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:11,760
so for me to answer the second part of

1304
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:18,790
post 2017 they said okay now we got to

1305
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:22,400
start talking about uap and not deny it

1306
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,240
now we gotta admit that we're looking

1307
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,920
into it because it is a threat it's a

1308
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:27,760
hot topic everybody's

1309
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:29,680
everybody's printing stuff about it and

1310
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:32,160
asking questions so let's meet it head

1311
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:32,960
on

1312
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:34,640
and it became

1313
00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:36,160
in my opinion

1314
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,839
a counter-intelligence asset in itself

1315
00:48:44,069 --> 00:48:41,520
to the american military and the

1316
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:44,079
american government why i say that is

1317
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:46,160
because now they can do a couple things

1318
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:49,200
all rolled into what we're seeing unfold

1319
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:51,119
i'll start off with again another

1320
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:52,960
misconception about me

1321
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:54,960
i do believe there is a percentage of

1322
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:56,960
these phenomena that are real

1323
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:59,440
unidentified and an extraterrestrial

1324
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:01,520
connection has not been ruled out i

1325
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,839
can't tell you 100 because i don't know

1326
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,599
but i'm just saying i haven't seen

1327
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:08,160
enough to to rule that out so i believe

1328
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:11,200
that there is a percentage here that you

1329
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:13,520
me your audience wants to see

1330
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,520
but in what we're seeing now that

1331
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:17,520
percentage and albeit probably a small

1332
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:20,000
one in the grander scheme of things is

1333
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:21,599
being covered up

1334
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:24,160
because in the same cover-up you can now

1335
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:26,880
cover up our secret technology our

1336
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:29,200
classified platforms that we know we're

1337
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:31,280
testing history shows us that we've been

1338
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,920
doing it for decades on top of decades

1339
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:35,760
and a lot of those have been the result

1340
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:38,559
of ufo sightings not all but definitely

1341
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:41,280
some but then you also in that same

1342
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,800
cover-up

1343
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:44,480
cover up what we know about our

1344
00:49:48,390 --> 00:49:45,760
adversaries

1345
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:48,400
and play dumb and say hey we have no

1346
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:50,160
idea what was spooking our ship out

1347
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:52,480
there while we were um and i'm using

1348
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:55,040
this as a broad example but in 2004 in

1349
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:57,520
the nimitz what if that was a foreign

1350
00:50:02,069 --> 00:50:00,000
technology right hypothetically speaking

1351
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:02,079
well now the navy just goes huh we have

1352
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:03,680
no idea what it was

1353
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:06,960
and the foreign power that actually was

1354
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:09,040
responsible for that is sitting back

1355
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:10,400
going wow

1356
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:12,640
do they really not know it was us or do

1357
00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:15,200
they know and this is all a lie smoke

1358
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:16,000
screen

1359
00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:17,520
that's the textbook definition of

1360
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:19,520
counterintelligence ensure that your

1361
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:22,240
enemy has absolutely no idea what you're

1362
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:23,599
talking about

1363
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,160
so i think people cringe when they start

1364
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,319
hearing like oh my gosh the nimitz no

1365
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:30,720
way it could be american technology

1366
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:32,800
it's still a possibility it i mean it

1367
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:33,920
just is

1368
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,400
people hate me for saying it but it is a

1369
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:39,040
possibility and i think that when you

1370
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:42,160
step away from that personal

1371
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:44,319
connection that we all have to this and

1372
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:46,559
it's easy to not be able to do that i

1373
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:48,880
find myself sometimes not being able to

1374
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:51,599
do that myself but step away

1375
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:54,880
and look at it in a broader scope

1376
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,280
the counter intelligence value to this

1377
00:51:03,270 --> 00:50:59,760
conversation in 2022

1378
00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:03,280
is a gold mine because they are able to

1379
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:04,640
openly

1380
00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:07,760
admit they look at uap

1381
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:11,040
give the aura of transparency but in the

1382
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:14,400
process cover everything up

1383
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:18,400
in my opinion it's kind of brilliant

1384
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,920
it's a very fair argument and obviously

1385
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:21,839
you make those points well i've i've

1386
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:24,160
said openly on the podcast before and i

1387
00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:25,599
suppose it's easier not being an

1388
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:28,559
american citizen that i don't believe

1389
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:30,800
that the us government or or any

1390
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:32,720
government or superpower wouldn't test

1391
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:34,160
things out on their own navy or

1392
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:36,880
personnel so while personally i've said

1393
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:38,640
before and people can go back and check

1394
00:51:43,109 --> 00:51:40,720
and many listeners know that do

1395
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:43,119
i believe the tic tac event

1396
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:45,599
was non-human origin

1397
00:51:49,589 --> 00:51:47,920
however i've always said that if it came

1398
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:49,599
out that tomorrow

1399
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:50,319
and we're going to talk about

1400
00:51:53,829 --> 00:51:52,160
louiellazondo in a minute louis lozando

1401
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,839
was out lying in the u.s government it

1402
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:55,920
was u.s technology and they were testing

1403
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:58,079
out on their own navy carrier group and

1404
00:52:01,430 --> 00:51:59,520
it was a nuclear carrier grip and it was

1405
00:52:03,270 --> 00:52:01,440
really dangerous

1406
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:03,280
i wouldn't be shocked at that because

1407
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:04,480
there's enough evidence to show

1408
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:05,920
governments have tested some horrible

1409
00:52:08,470 --> 00:52:07,520
things out on their own personnel in the

1410
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:08,480
past

1411
00:52:13,030 --> 00:52:10,640
so the questions for me though on things

1412
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:13,040
like the tic tac is if it is adversarial

1413
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:15,119
or us technology

1414
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:16,400
where did they get that level of

1415
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:17,920
technology where it's performing these

1416
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:19,359
incredible maneuvers and that doesn't

1417
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:21,760
mean the conversation doesn't go back to

1418
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:23,359
did they recover crashed alien

1419
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:25,440
technology somewhere down the line when

1420
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:27,200
did they break you know these incredible

1421
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:28,720
speeds how can they perform these

1422
00:52:32,069 --> 00:52:30,480
incredible maneuvers

1423
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:32,079
because like you see we'll no doubt have

1424
00:52:35,829 --> 00:52:33,680
some amazing tech

1425
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:35,839
but to perform the way it does

1426
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:37,520
it's just a whole lot of questions come

1427
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:38,240
out

1428
00:52:42,309 --> 00:52:39,920
i've mentioned lou and it's a good time

1429
00:52:44,549 --> 00:52:42,319
to bring it up i think you had lou's

1430
00:52:46,470 --> 00:52:44,559
first official interview

1431
00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:46,480
back in february

1432
00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:49,760
god 2021 now was it when he first came

1433
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:51,520
out i think it was it was january it was

1434
00:52:58,150 --> 00:52:54,720
just after years yeah and

1435
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:58,160
i i'm not sure if it was the very first

1436
00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:01,200
uh so i don't want to say that with with

1437
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:03,280
certainty uh but yeah i think it was one

1438
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:05,200
of his very early on and then shortly

1439
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:07,119
after that first interview i did with

1440
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:08,160
him

1441
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:08,960
the

1442
00:53:14,710 --> 00:53:12,240
avalanche of of podcasts and radio shows

1443
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:14,720
uh commenced and he did uh definitely

1444
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:16,559
did the rounds but yeah i think that

1445
00:53:21,510 --> 00:53:18,640
that was kovit has kind of squashed

1446
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:21,520
everything in my brain yeah 2021 i think

1447
00:53:26,950 --> 00:53:23,839
the beginning of 2020 well i i started

1448
00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:26,960
this pod in may 2020 and from what i

1449
00:53:30,790 --> 00:53:28,960
remember i think i was third in the

1450
00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:30,800
queue i think it was you and then ryan

1451
00:53:32,790 --> 00:53:31,760
sprague

1452
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:32,800
and then

1453
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:34,880
myself roughly that was the order

1454
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:36,480
because i watched both of yours and

1455
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,480
preparing for mine and tried to make it

1456
00:53:41,589 --> 00:53:40,079
something very different and i recommend

1457
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:41,599
people go back and listen to those early

1458
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:43,440
interviews with lou and like you say it

1459
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:45,280
seems like a lot longer i think than 18

1460
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:47,920
months ago but that's that's when it was

1461
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:49,200
now

1462
00:53:52,309 --> 00:53:50,720
that was lou coming out and i remember

1463
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:52,319
he started those interviews with

1464
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:54,880
yourself with ryan and with myself

1465
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:57,040
apologizing for them not having happened

1466
00:54:02,309 --> 00:53:59,440
earlier he had been part of to the stars

1467
00:54:04,750 --> 00:54:02,319
academy he had just left to the stars

1468
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:04,760
academy and it seems through some

1469
00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:07,359
miscommunications let's say that he

1470
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:09,200
wasn't getting interview requests as we

1471
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:11,359
work in are told um

1472
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:12,720
your interview was conducted really

1473
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:14,960
respectably you had been

1474
00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:16,559
i don't think before that i remember you

1475
00:54:20,710 --> 00:54:18,800
being a critic of lou but there was a

1476
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:20,720
lot of questions being asked you got lu

1477
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:21,599
on

1478
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:23,599
how did you feel before your interview

1479
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:25,119
with lou

1480
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:27,359
during and then after had your opinion

1481
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:28,800
changed at all because i would think

1482
00:54:33,190 --> 00:54:31,040
it's fair to say since then you still

1483
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:33,200
have a lot of questions that would would

1484
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:36,240
look like you're very distrustful of is

1485
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:39,200
it fair to say a law or is it a general

1486
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:42,559
distrust of government officials

1487
00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:43,280
so

1488
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,240
a great question uh and and happy to

1489
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:52,630
it's it's hard to separate lou as the

1490
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:55,119
former government guy versus lou as a

1491
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:56,480
person

1492
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:58,480
when it comes to the general public for

1493
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:00,720
me i separate it that's how i always

1494
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:02,880
looked at it and some people i think

1495
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:05,520
took that as a personal attack against

1496
00:55:11,589 --> 00:55:08,880
luis elizondo the man the human being

1497
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:11,599
and i never intended for that and if you

1498
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:14,000
remember from my interview i had started

1499
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:16,480
off with an apology to him

1500
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:18,400
that if anything had seemed like a

1501
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:21,760
personal attack that it wasn't

1502
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,000
it's not that i distrust government

1503
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:26,640
people overall but there is a lot of

1504
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:29,520
evidence to support you shouldn't trust

1505
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:33,280
100 government people overall it's just

1506
00:55:38,789 --> 00:55:36,799
fact right and especially and i'm sorry

1507
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:38,799
i'll probably get hate mail but he's

1508
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:41,520
counterintelligence right so we always

1509
00:55:46,470 --> 00:55:43,359
have to question

1510
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:46,480
but to his credit from almost day one

1511
00:55:50,549 --> 00:55:48,079
like his his interview i think he did

1512
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:50,559
with open minds

1513
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:52,880
he wanted the questions he said you

1514
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:55,760
should question everything even me

1515
00:55:59,430 --> 00:55:57,520
and that's slight paraphrasing but he

1516
00:56:01,910 --> 00:55:59,440
said even me

1517
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:01,920
and that was always the mindset that i

1518
00:56:06,789 --> 00:56:05,359
took in fact i have a big page on on on

1519
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:06,799
the black vault

1520
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:08,799
where i talk about ttsa and elizondo's

1521
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:11,119
claims and dod and then ended up

1522
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:12,319
branching that off because it got

1523
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:15,280
gigantic but at the very top i quoted

1524
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:17,119
luis elizondo because i think that that

1525
00:56:22,630 --> 00:56:19,280
was very admirable of him

1526
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:22,640
i wish his biggest fans would understand

1527
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:26,000
that questioning him is what he really

1528
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:28,079
was essentially saying in the beginning

1529
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:32,160
which is where i was from day one

1530
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:34,559
i don't know the inner workings of ttsa

1531
00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:36,319
so to go back to your question in the

1532
00:56:40,549 --> 00:56:38,720
very beginning when he said that he

1533
00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:40,559
wasn't informed

1534
00:56:46,230 --> 00:56:43,200
that we were trying to interview him

1535
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:46,240
i don't like the hearsay thing i was

1536
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,319
told differently i was told he was aware

1537
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:52,720
so that being said

1538
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:54,799
i don't know where that came from

1539
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:57,040
to the stars academy directly told me if

1540
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,480
if your audience is asking where did you

1541
00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:00,240
hear that from i could tell you carrie

1542
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:02,880
delong had talked to luis elizondo or

1543
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:04,319
told me directly

1544
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:06,480
if there's some kind of lying there by

1545
00:57:10,710 --> 00:57:08,559
her that's between them

1546
00:57:12,789 --> 00:57:10,720
i don't want to get into it but there

1547
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:12,799
was those types of discrepancies that

1548
00:57:15,349 --> 00:57:14,160
were kind of being

1549
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:15,359
being seen

1550
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:17,280
so leading up to the interview i had

1551
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:20,079
found a way to contact luis elizondo

1552
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:22,880
uh that had never been done before i

1553
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:24,880
always had to go through the ttsa pr

1554
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:27,440
people like carrie delong and later they

1555
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:30,480
got a uh british pr

1556
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:32,319
firm um

1557
00:57:36,789 --> 00:57:34,160
i'm not sure why they went into the uk

1558
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:36,799
for that but regardless uh it just kind

1559
00:57:39,829 --> 00:57:38,480
of spiraled from there

1560
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:39,839
because they had a couple firms

1561
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:41,680
thereafter and it was very difficult to

1562
00:57:46,390 --> 00:57:43,599
get them on the record but i found a way

1563
00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:46,400
to get directly to luis elizondo and i

1564
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:48,079
kind of put it out all on the table i'm

1565
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:49,359
like hey

1566
00:57:52,829 --> 00:57:51,599
the internet is really crappy when it

1567
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:52,839
comes to this

1568
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:56,000
um what you're hearing is probably not

1569
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:57,839
what i'm saying so here's what i'm doing

1570
00:58:01,670 --> 00:57:59,680
here's what i'm questioning here's what

1571
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:01,680
i want to find out

1572
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:04,640
and uh can we do an interview and and

1573
00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:07,760
this is why i'd want to do it so

1574
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:10,400
really condensing the story he agreed to

1575
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:12,880
his credit and the interview is is what

1576
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:15,520
you saw also to his credit he never had

1577
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:17,520
any don't ask me about this don't ask me

1578
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:19,599
about that i knew that i would push him

1579
00:58:24,390 --> 00:58:21,920
to the point of i have an nda or a

1580
00:58:26,309 --> 00:58:24,400
security clearance but regardless to his

1581
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:26,319
credit he never said don't ask me about

1582
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:27,440
anything

1583
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:28,240
now

1584
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:29,760
again i'm trying not to be too

1585
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:31,280
long-winded which i know i can tend to

1586
00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:32,000
be

1587
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:32,880
no

1588
00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:34,799
just go for it it's fine

1589
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:36,319
so the other part of your question how

1590
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:38,880
did i feel during and after i can tell

1591
00:58:44,069 --> 00:58:42,000
you that the majority of the questions i

1592
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,079
feel still to this day

1593
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:46,319
in august of 2022

1594
00:58:49,990 --> 00:58:48,000
remain unanswered

1595
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:50,000
and some that were answered during that

1596
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:51,839
are great and and in fact i've said this

1597
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:53,920
a thousand times a lot of the biggest

1598
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:55,920
concerns i have

1599
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:59,280
likely do have easy or logical answers

1600
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:00,319
to them

1601
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:02,000
uh but nobody's ever really addressed

1602
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:03,440
them before

1603
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:06,240
and so i i feel like um just to give

1604
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:07,680
some examples

1605
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:08,640
the

1606
00:59:15,670 --> 00:59:12,960
interview with him which i think is a

1607
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:15,680
very underrated part of my conversation

1608
00:59:21,190 --> 00:59:19,200
with him he said he never

1609
00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:21,200
intended for those videos to be out and

1610
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:23,359
he was not the one that gave them to

1611
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:26,559
ttsa and that he had no knowledge

1612
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:28,640
of the fact that they had them

1613
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:30,079
until they were

1614
00:59:33,910 --> 00:59:31,599
aired by the new york times or published

1615
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:33,920
by the new york times in december

1616
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:35,520
now he was working for the organization

1617
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:37,680
for months at that point so how do you

1618
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:40,559
not know that the videos that internally

1619
00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:42,880
you were going after to use in an

1620
00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:44,480
internal database

1621
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:46,720
for government use only

1622
00:59:50,710 --> 00:59:49,040
somehow slipped out of the government

1623
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:50,720
without your knowledge

1624
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,480
and somehow went to the corporation that

1625
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:54,079
you're now working for

1626
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:55,920
and somehow they never told you for

1627
00:59:59,030 --> 00:59:57,040
months

1628
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:59,040
until december when you found out like

1629
01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:00,720
the rest of us did

1630
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,040
that to me was the most surprising part

1631
01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:05,440
of the interview and i did not expect

1632
01:00:07,510 --> 01:00:06,559
that

1633
01:00:09,990 --> 01:00:07,520
because i

1634
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:10,000
i i don't feel that that was

1635
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:11,680
somebody's not telling me the truth

1636
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:14,400
right i mean how how do we how do we

1637
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:17,280
accept that as part of the story um

1638
01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:19,280
because when you look at then the

1639
01:00:23,750 --> 01:00:21,359
interview that luis elizondo did with

1640
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:23,760
george knapp on coast to coast

1641
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:26,720
he went into detail about the process

1642
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:29,040
that he did to get the videos

1643
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:32,160
out with the dd form 1910

1644
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:34,240
um all of us i'm sure probably unless

1645
01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:36,240
you work for the dod didn't know what

1646
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:38,720
the heck a dd form 1910 was myself

1647
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,400
included i had no idea

1648
01:00:44,069 --> 01:00:42,400
so he outlined the whole process

1649
01:00:45,510 --> 01:00:44,079
but he never in george knapp's interview

1650
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:45,520
said yeah i have no idea how these

1651
01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:46,960
things got out

1652
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:48,000
it was

1653
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:50,480
not until the documentation came out

1654
01:00:53,589 --> 01:00:51,839
through foia

1655
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:53,599
that showed there was a lot more to the

1656
01:00:58,789 --> 01:00:56,880
story and that the story we were getting

1657
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:58,799
about the videos and the

1658
01:01:02,150 --> 01:01:01,280
the ttsa's claim about them going

1659
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:02,160
through the quote unquote

1660
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:04,240
declassification process

1661
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:05,440
all of that

1662
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:07,440
was untrue

1663
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:10,000
and so when i had asked him about that

1664
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:13,280
grander story i feel that that wasn't

1665
01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:14,319
answered

1666
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:16,400
so walking away

1667
01:01:20,470 --> 01:01:18,880
again to your to your question

1668
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:20,480
i was

1669
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:22,240
a little sad you know that i didn't get

1670
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:24,480
the answers that i wanted

1671
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:26,960
some people wanted me to push harder and

1672
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:28,480
i'm not going to do that you know i mean

1673
01:01:31,349 --> 01:01:30,000
i try and remain respectful in

1674
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:31,359
interviews if i say what color is the

1675
01:01:33,829 --> 01:01:32,960
house and you refuse to say that it's

1676
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:33,839
blue

1677
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:35,200
i'm not going to sit there and put a

1678
01:01:38,870 --> 01:01:37,040
spotlight on you and say say blue say

1679
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:38,880
blue you know i mean to put it

1680
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:40,799
simplistically i don't i don't do that

1681
01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:43,119
so i let him answer the way he wanted to

1682
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:44,880
answer followed up and pushed where i

1683
01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:45,760
could

1684
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:46,960
and that was it

1685
01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:48,000
um

1686
01:01:51,910 --> 01:01:49,920
post that interview i did a couple more

1687
01:01:55,670 --> 01:01:51,920
with him i brought him back on when i

1688
01:01:59,109 --> 01:01:55,680
uncovered the destruction of his emails

1689
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:59,119
so we had post conversations from that

1690
01:02:03,029 --> 01:01:59,920
and

1691
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:03,039
you know i really like the guy i really

1692
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:04,799
truly do and that's what's frustrating

1693
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:07,200
for me is from a personal level we had

1694
01:02:11,589 --> 01:02:08,880
so many private

1695
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:11,599
conversations along with public ones

1696
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:13,680
that i had no problem with the guy on a

1697
01:02:19,349 --> 01:02:16,640
personal level he's likable he's cool

1698
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:19,359
you know he's fun to talk to because we

1699
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:20,880
kind of speak the same language i've

1700
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:22,480
been digging into government secrets

1701
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:25,920
forever and obviously he's like the guy

1702
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:28,400
that keeps part of these secrets so we

1703
01:02:32,549 --> 01:02:30,720
kind of you know in my opinion spoke the

1704
01:02:35,430 --> 01:02:32,559
same language a little bit

1705
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:35,440
um but it just got weird as time went on

1706
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:37,520
and uh you know a lot of these

1707
01:02:41,589 --> 01:02:40,079
conversations online uh that that

1708
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:41,599
happened away from me

1709
01:02:46,630 --> 01:02:44,160
um but namely some of what a lot of

1710
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:46,640
people myself included called drama

1711
01:02:50,789 --> 01:02:48,799
started coming out and

1712
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:50,799
you know the the felon list if you want

1713
01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:52,880
to get into that i'm happy but that

1714
01:02:57,109 --> 01:02:54,960
coming out and this the use of sock

1715
01:02:59,349 --> 01:02:57,119
puppet accounts which were those sock

1716
01:03:01,670 --> 01:02:59,359
puppet accounts were coming after me

1717
01:03:04,069 --> 01:03:01,680
um it just got weird which is

1718
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:04,079
unfortunate so

1719
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:05,599
long-winded way of answering your

1720
01:03:11,589 --> 01:03:07,920
question but that's the progression from

1721
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:11,599
the ttsa days to my interview and beyond

1722
01:03:19,109 --> 01:03:12,720
it's

1723
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:19,119
i stay away from the drama stuff on this

1724
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:20,480
podcast it's

1725
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:21,280
it's

1726
01:03:24,230 --> 01:03:22,240
just funny

1727
01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:24,240
yeah i tend to mute a lot of that stuff

1728
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:26,880
because what's the point ultimately

1729
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:28,000
you know when you have to put your phone

1730
01:03:31,430 --> 01:03:29,440
down and deal with your screaming kids

1731
01:03:33,190 --> 01:03:31,440
or make dinner or you're walking around

1732
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:33,200
i walk around supermarkets replying to

1733
01:03:36,789 --> 01:03:34,799
listeners sometimes and i'm like i could

1734
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:36,799
do without that so i tend to stay away

1735
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:37,920
from it but

1736
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:40,240
as as as at a place where and you're

1737
01:03:43,990 --> 01:03:42,079
right there have been times from what

1738
01:03:45,589 --> 01:03:44,000
lewis said and this goes for many

1739
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:45,599
officials and other people within the

1740
01:03:49,349 --> 01:03:47,599
you know the the inner workings of what

1741
01:03:51,750 --> 01:03:49,359
lou has been involved in what they see

1742
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:51,760
at one point over time changes and that

1743
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:54,079
may be subtly or it may be in a kind of

1744
01:03:58,950 --> 01:03:56,240
grander scale and like you say there are

1745
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:58,960
certain ways like the declassification

1746
01:04:03,270 --> 01:04:01,119
of the videos that wasn't necessarily

1747
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:03,280
clear and then got a little bit clouded

1748
01:04:07,910 --> 01:04:06,160
can you see why sometimes not working

1749
01:04:09,990 --> 01:04:07,920
for the nsa like you know let's clear

1750
01:04:11,829 --> 01:04:10,000
that up you don't like you say and i

1751
01:04:13,750 --> 01:04:11,839
don't that there are just things we

1752
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:13,760
don't understand why they say things how

1753
01:04:17,829 --> 01:04:15,920
they are but in the grand scheme of

1754
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:17,839
things it doesn't change that lou did

1755
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:19,680
work where he said he did he worked on

1756
01:04:23,990 --> 01:04:21,599
the program he said he did

1757
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:24,000
or for you does it still just muddy the

1758
01:04:28,150 --> 01:04:26,160
waters too much that it does affect the

1759
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:28,160
overall picture

1760
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:31,039
well i i think

1761
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:32,640
i think one thing to look at and i'll go

1762
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:34,160
back to what i said earlier and this is

1763
01:04:37,510 --> 01:04:36,079
a prime example of it that the documents

1764
01:04:40,870 --> 01:04:37,520
don't lie

1765
01:04:42,950 --> 01:04:40,880
and you look at the emails between mr

1766
01:04:45,270 --> 01:04:42,960
elizondo and dobser which is that

1767
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:45,280
organization within the dod that reviews

1768
01:04:49,829 --> 01:04:47,280
the videos and then you also look at the

1769
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:49,839
documentation from the air force office

1770
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:52,720
of special investigation afosi that

1771
01:04:59,029 --> 01:04:55,599
investigated the release of the three

1772
01:05:01,829 --> 01:04:59,039
uap videos go fast gimbal and flir

1773
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:01,839
uh to me those documents contradict the

1774
01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:02,880
story

1775
01:05:07,430 --> 01:05:04,720
and that's where i say documents don't

1776
01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:07,440
lie if if he wants to refute what's in

1777
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:09,200
those documents

1778
01:05:13,829 --> 01:05:12,000
then i'd be curious to to hear that

1779
01:05:15,190 --> 01:05:13,839
but to your to your question does it

1780
01:05:16,870 --> 01:05:15,200
muddy the waters

1781
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:16,880
absolutely it muddies the waters it

1782
01:05:21,670 --> 01:05:18,880
doesn't mean that he shouldn't be in

1783
01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:21,680
this conversation i'm glad that he is it

1784
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:24,000
doesn't mean that he shouldn't let's say

1785
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:26,319
testify in front of congress under oath

1786
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:28,160
because hey i'm all for it and i hope

1787
01:05:32,710 --> 01:05:30,079
the right questions are asked

1788
01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:32,720
i'm not interested in drama

1789
01:05:37,029 --> 01:05:35,280
provoking questions by congress mind you

1790
01:05:41,190 --> 01:05:37,039
i'm just talking about legitimate

1791
01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:41,200
questions about what he uh did what they

1792
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,280
found out and and why is there this

1793
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:47,760
pushback by the dod to say no you didn't

1794
01:05:51,670 --> 01:05:49,440
do that you know and i think that that's

1795
01:05:53,430 --> 01:05:51,680
a legit legitimate question that doesn't

1796
01:05:55,109 --> 01:05:53,440
encourage the drama

1797
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:55,119
but rather as somebody who's watched

1798
01:06:00,150 --> 01:05:58,000
this cover up for 26 years

1799
01:06:02,150 --> 01:06:00,160
and uh it being a cover-up that's gone

1800
01:06:03,750 --> 01:06:02,160
on for decades and decades prior to me

1801
01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:03,760
being born

1802
01:06:07,910 --> 01:06:05,359
those are legitimate questions because

1803
01:06:10,630 --> 01:06:07,920
of mr elizondo being a member of the u.s

1804
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:10,640
military and somebody who

1805
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:12,240
has

1806
01:06:16,150 --> 01:06:14,559
excellent evaluations within the dod and

1807
01:06:17,589 --> 01:06:16,160
we've seen them now coming out with the

1808
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:17,599
ig complaint

1809
01:06:21,589 --> 01:06:20,160
if they are if they are lying

1810
01:06:23,589 --> 01:06:21,599
about him

1811
01:06:25,990 --> 01:06:23,599
we should know that

1812
01:06:27,430 --> 01:06:26,000
and i i understand that mr elizondo

1813
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:27,440
saying they're lying and that's great

1814
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:29,520
they could very well be true i want to

1815
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:31,680
see all this under oath i i want to see

1816
01:06:36,789 --> 01:06:34,079
the under secretary of defense come in

1817
01:06:37,589 --> 01:06:36,799
as you know the leader of ousdi and say

1818
01:06:38,630 --> 01:06:37,599
hey

1819
01:06:40,710 --> 01:06:38,640
this is

1820
01:06:43,029 --> 01:06:40,720
a lie that the pentagon spokespeople put

1821
01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:43,039
out and i'm here to correct it or i'm

1822
01:06:45,430 --> 01:06:44,720
here to support it however that plays

1823
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:45,440
out

1824
01:06:49,829 --> 01:06:48,160
why that's important is because it plays

1825
01:06:51,910 --> 01:06:49,839
into the foundation of the conversation

1826
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:51,920
we're having now not you and i but i'm

1827
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:54,000
talking about the grander conversation

1828
01:06:58,390 --> 01:06:56,160
of uap it doesn't take away from the

1829
01:07:00,470 --> 01:06:58,400
legitimacy of the important cases like

1830
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:00,480
nimitz and so on and so forth that

1831
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:02,880
deserve it but rather how did we get

1832
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:03,680
here

1833
01:07:07,349 --> 01:07:05,520
and i am that person that wants every

1834
01:07:10,150 --> 01:07:07,359
single puzzle piece so

1835
01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:10,160
yeah i would love to see him stay a part

1836
01:07:13,510 --> 01:07:12,240
of the conversation i'd love to see him

1837
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:13,520
under oath

1838
01:07:17,109 --> 01:07:15,359
and i'd love to see what what type of

1839
01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:17,119
information comes out and goes from

1840
01:07:20,789 --> 01:07:18,480
there so

1841
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:20,799
does it muddy the water in the process

1842
01:07:25,430 --> 01:07:22,160
in my opinion

1843
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:25,440
i think we've proven it does i i do

1844
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:27,119
and the videos are a prime example

1845
01:07:30,549 --> 01:07:29,119
there's quite a few others

1846
01:07:31,589 --> 01:07:30,559
but it muddies the water but does that

1847
01:07:33,589 --> 01:07:31,599
mean that we shouldn't have the

1848
01:07:35,349 --> 01:07:33,599
conversation in my opinion no i think we

1849
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:35,359
should continue to have it i hope he

1850
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:38,079
stays a part of it and we get to know

1851
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:40,480
more of the overall story hopefully

1852
01:07:44,309 --> 01:07:42,480
sooner than later

1853
01:07:45,750 --> 01:07:44,319
is all of this a consequence though of

1854
01:07:47,670 --> 01:07:45,760
what we talked about earlier when i

1855
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:47,680
mentioned you know the the human element

1856
01:07:52,069 --> 01:07:49,680
of the foyer process causes issues

1857
01:07:54,789 --> 01:07:52,079
because people are individuals by their

1858
01:07:57,029 --> 01:07:54,799
very nature and even though we put

1859
01:07:58,870 --> 01:07:57,039
people in positions of authority and i'm

1860
01:08:01,029 --> 01:07:58,880
not talking necessarily about lawyer but

1861
01:08:02,870 --> 01:08:01,039
even your susan goff or your under

1862
01:08:05,270 --> 01:08:02,880
secretary of defense you're president of

1863
01:08:07,029 --> 01:08:05,280
the united states whoever it may be

1864
01:08:08,710 --> 01:08:07,039
they are still human and they still make

1865
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:08,720
mistakes and they still have their own

1866
01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:11,520
biases and potentially their own agendas

1867
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:13,599
and that doesn't necessarily mean it can

1868
01:08:17,349 --> 01:08:16,239
be black and white that well

1869
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:17,359
maybe

1870
01:08:20,709 --> 01:08:19,040
lou did lie a little bit but for a

1871
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,719
certain reason we don't know and you

1872
01:08:25,349 --> 01:08:22,560
know what maybe the dod

1873
01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:25,359
isn't necessarily lying when they say x

1874
01:08:29,749 --> 01:08:26,480
but

1875
01:08:31,510 --> 01:08:29,759
y z and a all comes into it as well and

1876
01:08:33,829 --> 01:08:31,520
that just the fact there are so many

1877
01:08:35,590 --> 01:08:33,839
cogs in the wheel can make it a very

1878
01:08:37,990 --> 01:08:35,600
complicated situation where there are

1879
01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:38,000
shades of grey everywhere and i just

1880
01:08:40,630 --> 01:08:39,679
wonder does does that play into this

1881
01:08:42,390 --> 01:08:40,640
that

1882
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:42,400
maybe they're lying a little bit maybe

1883
01:08:45,189 --> 01:08:43,520
they're all telling the truth a little

1884
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:45,199
bit and maybe there's something else in

1885
01:08:48,789 --> 01:08:46,480
between as well

1886
01:08:50,470 --> 01:08:48,799
and just with the ufo topic

1887
01:08:51,990 --> 01:08:50,480
wouldn't that just be

1888
01:08:54,709 --> 01:08:52,000
be the thing because that's what the

1889
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:54,719
very ufo topic is like why don't we have

1890
01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:56,080
good pictures why don't we have good

1891
01:08:59,590 --> 01:08:58,080
videos there's always a reason and i

1892
01:09:01,030 --> 01:08:59,600
just wonder is that the same with all

1893
01:09:04,309 --> 01:09:01,040
these officials and intelligence

1894
01:09:06,630 --> 01:09:04,319
officials and government officials

1895
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:06,640
uh it's you you put it eloquently and

1896
01:09:12,229 --> 01:09:09,199
brilliantly i i believe that there

1897
01:09:14,149 --> 01:09:12,239
are other layers of this onion on both

1898
01:09:16,070 --> 01:09:14,159
sides of that particular part of the

1899
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,080
conversation meaning the luis elizondo

1900
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:17,839
and and that side

1901
01:09:21,430 --> 01:09:19,440
uh and the government side that there

1902
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:21,440
are layers of the onion on both sides

1903
01:09:27,510 --> 01:09:24,719
that have yet to be revealed i feel 100

1904
01:09:29,669 --> 01:09:27,520
confident to say that uh but does that

1905
01:09:33,269 --> 01:09:29,679
mean that both sides are kind of telling

1906
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:33,279
the truth but also kind of not likely so

1907
01:09:36,709 --> 01:09:34,960
and i think that we all need to have

1908
01:09:38,309 --> 01:09:36,719
that conversation and we definitely

1909
01:09:40,390 --> 01:09:38,319
won't all agree

1910
01:09:42,309 --> 01:09:40,400
but i think that if you go back to 2000

1911
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:42,319
it was probably

1912
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:45,520
around april of 2018

1913
01:09:50,390 --> 01:09:47,600
when i finally started

1914
01:09:51,990 --> 01:09:50,400
showing that skepticism openly that you

1915
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:52,000
uh referred to

1916
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:54,080
and the reason why it was then was that

1917
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:55,440
december

1918
01:10:00,070 --> 01:09:57,920
i was getting foia responses from

1919
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:00,080
for that i filed in october

1920
01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:02,159
because that october of 2017 was when

1921
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:03,840
luis salazando did the press conference

1922
01:10:08,070 --> 01:10:05,520
with ttsa

1923
01:10:10,950 --> 01:10:08,080
fast forward it took months for what i

1924
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:10,960
called the red flags to start showing up

1925
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:13,280
and things weren't starting to line up

1926
01:10:17,030 --> 01:10:15,920
beginning of 2018 the press officers got

1927
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:17,040
involved

1928
01:10:20,709 --> 01:10:18,960
and it just got weird throughout the

1929
01:10:23,110 --> 01:10:20,719
next few months i was trying to get in

1930
01:10:25,270 --> 01:10:23,120
contact with luis elizondo to clear

1931
01:10:27,270 --> 01:10:25,280
things up carrie delong essentially was

1932
01:10:29,430 --> 01:10:27,280
kind of that that wall in between and

1933
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:29,440
then it just kind of went from there

1934
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:31,120
but going back to

1935
01:10:34,229 --> 01:10:32,800
that time frame i think is when the

1936
01:10:36,630 --> 01:10:34,239
skepticism

1937
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:36,640
really started for me and when you look

1938
01:10:40,149 --> 01:10:37,840
at it

1939
01:10:42,950 --> 01:10:40,159
the reaction from the general public and

1940
01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:42,960
how dare you say he would ever lie how

1941
01:10:47,110 --> 01:10:44,719
dare you say that we don't have the full

1942
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:47,120
story from him how dare you say that the

1943
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:50,320
videos didn't come out you know 100

1944
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:52,239
legit and i go back to the videos

1945
01:10:55,430 --> 01:10:53,440
because that's the biggest part of this

1946
01:10:57,750 --> 01:10:55,440
debate and in my opinion the most easily

1947
01:10:59,830 --> 01:10:57,760
provable fallacy from those beginning

1948
01:11:02,229 --> 01:10:59,840
days that we were not told the truth

1949
01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:02,239
about how these things came out and and

1950
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:03,280
evidence

1951
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:05,600
definitely proves that in in my opinion

1952
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:07,360
but the evidence is there

1953
01:11:10,870 --> 01:11:09,120
so when you go back to that you see the

1954
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:10,880
public's reaction like

1955
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:12,640
there's no way that this wasn't legit

1956
01:11:16,870 --> 01:11:14,719
stop making an issue out of it well

1957
01:11:19,510 --> 01:11:16,880
since then we've learned that af osi

1958
01:11:22,070 --> 01:11:19,520
agreed with what i was saying publicly

1959
01:11:24,070 --> 01:11:22,080
not with me personally but that idea

1960
01:11:26,310 --> 01:11:24,080
that these these these videos didn't

1961
01:11:27,430 --> 01:11:26,320
come out legitimately and chris and if

1962
01:11:29,669 --> 01:11:27,440
you don't believe me and you don't want

1963
01:11:31,430 --> 01:11:29,679
to believe the government that's fine

1964
01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:31,440
believe christopher mellon because he

1965
01:11:36,229 --> 01:11:34,400
said it too he said that rules were bent

1966
01:11:38,550 --> 01:11:36,239
to get these videos out so we've

1967
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:38,560
solidified that something went awry

1968
01:11:42,550 --> 01:11:40,960
there so now fast forward if we start

1969
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:42,560
accepting

1970
01:11:45,990 --> 01:11:44,800
acceptable lies where do we draw the

1971
01:11:48,630 --> 01:11:46,000
line

1972
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:48,640
and it's that age-old question do the

1973
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:50,640
ends justify the means

1974
01:11:54,709 --> 01:11:53,199
and if you're gonna lie to justify a

1975
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:54,719
great outcome

1976
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:56,880
and we've got congressional hearings now

1977
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:59,440
and hurrah and there's legislation so

1978
01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:01,199
who cares about the videos who cares if

1979
01:12:06,070 --> 01:12:04,080
he lied who cares if whomever lied we're

1980
01:12:09,510 --> 01:12:06,080
getting progress

1981
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,520
does that justify it and for me it's the

1982
01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:11,600
house of card scenario if you build a

1983
01:12:16,149 --> 01:12:13,679
house of cards with a weak foundation

1984
01:12:19,030 --> 01:12:16,159
what's gonna happen it's gonna fall

1985
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:19,040
and we've seen stuff like this before

1986
01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:21,600
you go back to the mid to late 1960s and

1987
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:23,280
you see the push

1988
01:12:26,709 --> 01:12:24,960
during the end of the blue book days

1989
01:12:29,030 --> 01:12:26,719
gerald ford specifically and i have all

1990
01:12:30,229 --> 01:12:29,040
the documentation from gerald ford's

1991
01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,239
library

1992
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:32,239
this was another show i did for history

1993
01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:34,320
channel which was a lot of fun for me

1994
01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:36,960
because you see the push that gerald

1995
01:12:44,070 --> 01:12:41,280
ford then congressman ford was doing to

1996
01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:44,080
get the uap topic in front of the senate

1997
01:12:49,189 --> 01:12:46,880
have hearings get legislation it was a

1998
01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:49,199
very serious problem in his home state

1999
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:51,840
but much bigger for the united states it

2000
01:12:56,950 --> 01:12:54,080
was a national security concern this and

2001
01:12:59,189 --> 01:12:56,960
that and you push and they did convene a

2002
01:13:00,870 --> 01:12:59,199
group to come together and they did

2003
01:13:03,990 --> 01:13:00,880
investigate it towards the end of the

2004
01:13:07,110 --> 01:13:04,000
1960s and what did we get you know i

2005
01:13:08,870 --> 01:13:07,120
mean we got a farce report that ended

2006
01:13:10,950 --> 01:13:08,880
project blue book said nothing was to

2007
01:13:12,950 --> 01:13:10,960
the ufo phenomena

2008
01:13:15,110 --> 01:13:12,960
and uh closed the book literally and

2009
01:13:16,630 --> 01:13:15,120
figuratively and project blue book was

2010
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:16,640
closed with the the condon committee

2011
01:13:21,990 --> 01:13:19,440
report so you look at that and and

2012
01:13:24,390 --> 01:13:22,000
juxtaposed that with today we're seeing

2013
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:24,400
very similar things play out i hope it

2014
01:13:29,110 --> 01:13:26,320
doesn't play out that way

2015
01:13:31,590 --> 01:13:29,120
but rather we've seen this before

2016
01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:31,600
and so i'm i'm eager to see now moving

2017
01:13:34,550 --> 01:13:32,960
forward

2018
01:13:35,990 --> 01:13:34,560
how much those

2019
01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:36,000
half-truths

2020
01:13:41,189 --> 01:13:38,000
are going to play a role in this

2021
01:13:43,750 --> 01:13:41,199
that if congress was misled not saying

2022
01:13:45,510 --> 01:13:43,760
by anybody specifically but by the

2023
01:13:47,189 --> 01:13:45,520
overall story

2024
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:47,199
you know we i don't know what your views

2025
01:13:51,189 --> 01:13:49,199
are on the wilson davis stuff but i'll

2026
01:13:53,350 --> 01:13:51,199
use this as an example

2027
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:53,360
even if you believe them to depict real

2028
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:54,320
events

2029
01:13:59,510 --> 01:13:56,800
they are highly controversial and

2030
01:14:01,590 --> 01:13:59,520
admiral wilson denies them so do they

2031
01:14:03,750 --> 01:14:01,600
waste congressional time by pulling in

2032
01:14:05,910 --> 01:14:03,760
admiral wilson and challenging his open

2033
01:14:07,590 --> 01:14:05,920
statements or what i'm not really sure

2034
01:14:09,350 --> 01:14:07,600
but let's say they do and that whole

2035
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:09,360
thing you realize that they were kind of

2036
01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:12,239
told these stories that that's the

2037
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:13,760
congress and the senators finally

2038
01:14:16,790 --> 01:14:15,199
realized oh

2039
01:14:19,669 --> 01:14:16,800
so this house of cards really wasn't

2040
01:14:21,189 --> 01:14:19,679
built on a strong foundation and we

2041
01:14:22,550 --> 01:14:21,199
threw all of our you know time and

2042
01:14:25,510 --> 01:14:22,560
effort into this

2043
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:25,520
are we going to potentially backfire

2044
01:14:30,229 --> 01:14:27,520
so that's where i feel that we need to

2045
01:14:32,070 --> 01:14:30,239
have the conversation of what is an

2046
01:14:35,830 --> 01:14:32,080
acceptable lie

2047
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:35,840
because end of 2017 beginning of 2018

2048
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:37,840
we were dealing with 100 truths

2049
01:14:41,590 --> 01:14:40,159
according to the to the general public

2050
01:14:43,750 --> 01:14:41,600
that those that came out of the

2051
01:14:46,229 --> 01:14:43,760
government were not lying to us

2052
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:46,239
and we needed to

2053
01:14:50,390 --> 01:14:47,840
take the next step

2054
01:14:52,229 --> 01:14:50,400
now here we are in 2022 going and i'm

2055
01:14:53,910 --> 01:14:52,239
not putting this on you by the way but

2056
01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:53,920
this actually is part of the bigger

2057
01:14:57,910 --> 01:14:55,360
conversation

2058
01:14:59,510 --> 01:14:57,920
well they lied but it's okay that they

2059
01:15:02,630 --> 01:14:59,520
lied you know because we're getting

2060
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:02,640
hearings and so on do the ends justify

2061
01:15:06,310 --> 01:15:03,840
the means

2062
01:15:08,390 --> 01:15:06,320
and i'm not here to say yay or nay uh by

2063
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:08,400
the way but but rather pose the question

2064
01:15:11,430 --> 01:15:09,280
and go

2065
01:15:14,550 --> 01:15:11,440
we need to take a step back we need to

2066
01:15:17,510 --> 01:15:14,560
look and see what history has taught us

2067
01:15:20,229 --> 01:15:17,520
through the 1960s with condon and so on

2068
01:15:22,470 --> 01:15:20,239
and are we leading down that path

2069
01:15:23,750 --> 01:15:22,480
is will is are the wilson davis notes

2070
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:23,760
what you want to put in front of

2071
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:26,960
everything else you know are half truths

2072
01:15:30,870 --> 01:15:28,560
what you want to put in front of

2073
01:15:33,590 --> 01:15:30,880
everything else i don't have the answer

2074
01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:33,600
to that but rather it's a conversation i

2075
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:35,840
i think collectively we should all have

2076
01:15:38,790 --> 01:15:37,440
and i hope we do

2077
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:38,800
yeah that's there's a few really good

2078
01:15:42,310 --> 01:15:39,920
points in there and it's quite a

2079
01:15:44,229 --> 01:15:42,320
divisive one as to

2080
01:15:45,830 --> 01:15:44,239
how important even this topic should be

2081
01:15:48,229 --> 01:15:45,840
in terms of discussion right now and

2082
01:15:50,470 --> 01:15:48,239
i've said before like i would love to

2083
01:15:52,310 --> 01:15:50,480
hear the ufo topic discussed more openly

2084
01:15:53,910 --> 01:15:52,320
in us congress but especially here in

2085
01:15:55,669 --> 01:15:53,920
the uk as well

2086
01:15:58,550 --> 01:15:55,679
maybe that changes maybe it doesn't in

2087
01:16:00,390 --> 01:15:58,560
the near future but someone like my wife

2088
01:16:02,229 --> 01:16:00,400
is less concerned about the ufo topic

2089
01:16:04,149 --> 01:16:02,239
and more concerned about the cost of our

2090
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:04,159
gas and electric bills coming up sure

2091
01:16:07,990 --> 01:16:05,760
and how much it cost to put fuel in the

2092
01:16:10,149 --> 01:16:08,000
car and food on the table and

2093
01:16:12,310 --> 01:16:10,159
people some people do struggle with that

2094
01:16:14,790 --> 01:16:12,320
in the ufo community and this is the

2095
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:14,800
biggest story of all time yes it is but

2096
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:17,280
right now the question would be how does

2097
01:16:21,270 --> 01:16:19,520
this affect people right now and you

2098
01:16:22,790 --> 01:16:21,280
know what they still go to work tomorrow

2099
01:16:24,550 --> 01:16:22,800
there's no more there's no flying cars

2100
01:16:26,149 --> 01:16:24,560
we don't all get free fuel when we find

2101
01:16:27,830 --> 01:16:26,159
out aliens are real that doesn't happen

2102
01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:27,840
overnight there's all those

2103
01:16:31,030 --> 01:16:29,679
conversations and for me that's a really

2104
01:16:34,229 --> 01:16:31,040
interesting one

2105
01:16:36,470 --> 01:16:34,239
and i i can see both sides of it i can

2106
01:16:38,149 --> 01:16:36,480
and i go back to your point also about

2107
01:16:40,310 --> 01:16:38,159
this has happened before

2108
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:40,320
and i i empathize with people who have

2109
01:16:45,030 --> 01:16:42,080
been in this topic far longer even than

2110
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:45,040
you people who are in their 60s 70s 80s

2111
01:16:49,590 --> 01:16:47,520
who contact me on dms or email and they

2112
01:16:51,350 --> 01:16:49,600
say that they really hope this is the

2113
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:51,360
time it changes but they've seen it

2114
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:53,600
before and maybe people far younger

2115
01:16:57,189 --> 01:16:55,440
don't realize that and yet looks great

2116
01:16:59,110 --> 01:16:57,199
now because we're living in the moment

2117
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:59,120
and we've got social media which is so

2118
01:17:01,830 --> 01:17:00,239
different and we get everything

2119
01:17:03,590 --> 01:17:01,840
instantly and it's not enough you've got

2120
01:17:05,110 --> 01:17:03,600
to have it yesterday you know two weeks

2121
01:17:06,950 --> 01:17:05,120
ago

2122
01:17:08,870 --> 01:17:06,960
but yeah there ha there is an element

2123
01:17:11,510 --> 01:17:08,880
you have to admit of this has happened

2124
01:17:13,110 --> 01:17:11,520
before and an extent in a way

2125
01:17:15,270 --> 01:17:13,120
but hopefully that comes different this

2126
01:17:18,070 --> 01:17:15,280
time and where people like me back

2127
01:17:21,030 --> 01:17:18,080
individuals like lou hoping that no the

2128
01:17:22,709 --> 01:17:21,040
truth he is telling comic fruition i'm

2129
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:22,719
going to ask you soon about gary nolan

2130
01:17:25,510 --> 01:17:24,320
again an individual who's becoming more

2131
01:17:27,110 --> 01:17:25,520
prominent and had a really good

2132
01:17:29,669 --> 01:17:27,120
interview with tucker carlson recently

2133
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:29,679
as well so hoping that this time things

2134
01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:31,199
do change but

2135
01:17:35,189 --> 01:17:33,440
also fully prepared for

2136
01:17:36,870 --> 01:17:35,199
the moment it does go back in the box in

2137
01:17:38,630 --> 01:17:36,880
some way shape or form as much as people

2138
01:17:40,229 --> 01:17:38,640
like to say it's not going back in the

2139
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:40,239
box now the genie's not going back in

2140
01:17:43,350 --> 01:17:41,280
the bottle

2141
01:17:45,669 --> 01:17:43,360
i'm sure people said that last time long

2142
01:17:47,110 --> 01:17:45,679
before there was aol dos chats and

2143
01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:47,120
everything like that you know it was

2144
01:17:50,550 --> 01:17:48,400
back in the blue book days it would have

2145
01:17:52,950 --> 01:17:50,560
been shared newsletters or whatnot going

2146
01:17:54,550 --> 01:17:52,960
back about in the 60s and 70s and 80s so

2147
01:17:56,310 --> 01:17:54,560
but yes some really good points here

2148
01:17:58,229 --> 01:17:56,320
john well made as well and there's some

2149
01:17:59,990 --> 01:17:58,239
things there i i fall on the side of

2150
01:18:01,669 --> 01:18:00,000
well i believe lou

2151
01:18:02,950 --> 01:18:01,679
i think he worked when he did but i also

2152
01:18:05,189 --> 01:18:02,960
think that i've been miss truths down

2153
01:18:07,189 --> 01:18:05,199
the line by him and others for reasons

2154
01:18:09,430 --> 01:18:07,199
that i have no right to know and will

2155
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:09,440
never find out more than likely as well

2156
01:18:12,550 --> 01:18:11,040
a lot of stuff i do want to still get to

2157
01:18:13,750 --> 01:18:12,560
in the time i've got left jon i've been

2158
01:18:15,669 --> 01:18:13,760
really good

2159
01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:15,679
to the stars academy you've touched on

2160
01:18:19,590 --> 01:18:17,440
what are your thoughts on to the stars

2161
01:18:21,910 --> 01:18:19,600
academy as an organization now to the

2162
01:18:23,270 --> 01:18:21,920
stars was about before and after as a

2163
01:18:25,990 --> 01:18:23,280
media company

2164
01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:26,000
tom delong's a wild cat in his own right

2165
01:18:30,550 --> 01:18:27,760
you know and i followed his musical

2166
01:18:31,910 --> 01:18:30,560
career as a kid a big fan of his music

2167
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:31,920
but then he comes out with all these

2168
01:18:37,030 --> 01:18:34,800
stories he puts together this incredible

2169
01:18:38,550 --> 01:18:37,040
team of individuals with a government

2170
01:18:40,229 --> 01:18:38,560
background we know he was working with

2171
01:18:41,669 --> 01:18:40,239
podesta and potentially wanted to work

2172
01:18:43,510 --> 01:18:41,679
with the clintons and that that kind of

2173
01:18:45,350 --> 01:18:43,520
fell through

2174
01:18:47,590 --> 01:18:45,360
what do you think about the formation of

2175
01:18:50,229 --> 01:18:47,600
to the stars academy

2176
01:18:52,070 --> 01:18:50,239
what it achieved in a short time but

2177
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:52,080
then how it's

2178
01:18:56,550 --> 01:18:54,480
evolved or are devolved depending how

2179
01:18:59,669 --> 01:18:56,560
people look at it

2180
01:19:01,350 --> 01:18:59,679
uh i away from the black vault uh

2181
01:19:04,709 --> 01:19:01,360
started a business about five six years

2182
01:19:07,110 --> 01:19:04,719
ago i am a 100 supporter of anybody who

2183
01:19:08,630 --> 01:19:07,120
starts a business any entrepreneur

2184
01:19:10,550 --> 01:19:08,640
fully support that

2185
01:19:13,189 --> 01:19:10,560
always from day one i've wished tom

2186
01:19:16,550 --> 01:19:13,199
delonge luck

2187
01:19:18,550 --> 01:19:16,560
and best wishes for his success

2188
01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:18,560
that's my business hat when i put the

2189
01:19:21,270 --> 01:19:20,080
ufo hat on

2190
01:19:22,790 --> 01:19:21,280
seeing what they wanted to do in the

2191
01:19:25,510 --> 01:19:22,800
beginning you could tell they were

2192
01:19:27,270 --> 01:19:25,520
biting off way more than they could chew

2193
01:19:29,350 --> 01:19:27,280
so it's exciting to see that somebody

2194
01:19:30,790 --> 01:19:29,360
wanted to to lead the effort to build a

2195
01:19:33,270 --> 01:19:30,800
space plane and look at the people he

2196
01:19:36,229 --> 01:19:33,280
brought together and so on but the ttsa

2197
01:19:38,709 --> 01:19:36,239
that was announced in october of 2017 is

2198
01:19:40,149 --> 01:19:38,719
not the one that you see today you know

2199
01:19:42,390 --> 01:19:40,159
now we're talking about a production

2200
01:19:44,229 --> 01:19:42,400
company i live in los angeles i worked

2201
01:19:46,870 --> 01:19:44,239
in television for more than a decade as

2202
01:19:48,870 --> 01:19:46,880
a director and producer writer

2203
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:48,880
those are a dime a dozen now that's not

2204
01:19:52,950 --> 01:19:50,560
to take away from

2205
01:19:55,110 --> 01:19:52,960
uh his work or even a judgment on

2206
01:19:57,270 --> 01:19:55,120
quality but rather

2207
01:19:59,910 --> 01:19:57,280
that's a totally different endeavor than

2208
01:20:01,750 --> 01:19:59,920
what it was a few years back

2209
01:20:03,990 --> 01:20:01,760
what i think about that though is that

2210
01:20:07,030 --> 01:20:04,000
again wish him the best of luck but

2211
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:07,040
what's frustrating is the ufo aspect to

2212
01:20:12,550 --> 01:20:07,840
it

2213
01:20:14,550 --> 01:20:12,560
for this too there is no doubt that he

2214
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:14,560
started the ball rolling

2215
01:20:19,510 --> 01:20:16,800
getting people talking part of that was

2216
01:20:22,229 --> 01:20:19,520
luis elizondo coming out onto the stage

2217
01:20:24,870 --> 01:20:22,239
uh and speaking publicly part of it was

2218
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:24,880
it was just tommed along rockstar crazy

2219
01:20:30,550 --> 01:20:27,840
guy uh and i say that with love but

2220
01:20:32,709 --> 01:20:30,560
crazy guy saying crazy things

2221
01:20:34,870 --> 01:20:32,719
he's getting headlines right and that's

2222
01:20:36,550 --> 01:20:34,880
i think what people started to look at

2223
01:20:38,390 --> 01:20:36,560
and on top of that you got to look at

2224
01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:38,400
those things generate hits and clicks

2225
01:20:42,709 --> 01:20:40,560
for a dying media industry so there's

2226
01:20:44,790 --> 01:20:42,719
kind of a whole lot rolled into the

2227
01:20:47,189 --> 01:20:44,800
success of the story but there's no

2228
01:20:49,430 --> 01:20:47,199
doubt that it was spearheaded by ttsa

2229
01:20:52,229 --> 01:20:49,440
led by tom delong

2230
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:52,239
but fast forward now um the the thing

2231
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:54,080
that i honed in on

2232
01:20:57,510 --> 01:20:55,440
was wishing him good luck with the

2233
01:20:59,270 --> 01:20:57,520
business but i honed in on that army

2234
01:21:02,070 --> 01:20:59,280
agreement that he made

2235
01:21:04,149 --> 01:21:02,080
when he acquired multiple pieces of

2236
01:21:06,870 --> 01:21:04,159
alleged uap

2237
01:21:08,950 --> 01:21:06,880
created a deal with the same entity that

2238
01:21:10,629 --> 01:21:08,960
he spent so long telling us was lying

2239
01:21:12,790 --> 01:21:10,639
about uap

2240
01:21:14,870 --> 01:21:12,800
and made a deal with them and said i'll

2241
01:21:17,030 --> 01:21:14,880
share our scientific results with you if

2242
01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:17,040
you share your expertise and equipment

2243
01:21:21,750 --> 01:21:19,679
with us and that was the army crada

2244
01:21:24,070 --> 01:21:21,760
agreement and i followed that from

2245
01:21:26,390 --> 01:21:24,080
literally like the the moment it was

2246
01:21:28,229 --> 01:21:26,400
announced because i was fascinated by it

2247
01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:28,239
the fact that the army would get in in

2248
01:21:32,310 --> 01:21:30,560
bed sorry for the terminology there but

2249
01:21:33,750 --> 01:21:32,320
get in bed with an organization that's

2250
01:21:37,189 --> 01:21:33,760
touting

2251
01:21:38,950 --> 01:21:37,199
uap material and stories and so on and

2252
01:21:40,550 --> 01:21:38,960
the fact that they would take their

2253
01:21:43,189 --> 01:21:40,560
resources i don't want to say waste

2254
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:43,199
because it's very important um but but

2255
01:21:48,310 --> 01:21:46,560
in their eyes you know with a with um a

2256
01:21:50,709 --> 01:21:48,320
topic that they really just don't want

2257
01:21:52,470 --> 01:21:50,719
to touch and go yeah yeah bring your ufo

2258
01:21:55,270 --> 01:21:52,480
stuff to us and we'll test it you know

2259
01:21:57,750 --> 01:21:55,280
it was just bizarre and i started

2260
01:22:00,149 --> 01:21:57,760
working on stories about it i've written

2261
01:22:02,310 --> 01:22:00,159
i think about four since the

2262
01:22:04,470 --> 01:22:02,320
four big stories uh since the credo was

2263
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:04,480
announced uh working to get statements

2264
01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:06,719
from tom delong ttsa

2265
01:22:11,189 --> 01:22:09,040
and also statements from the army

2266
01:22:13,110 --> 01:22:11,199
i can tell you to summarize my answer

2267
01:22:15,590 --> 01:22:13,120
the army is more transparent about that

2268
01:22:17,910 --> 01:22:15,600
than ttsa why

2269
01:22:19,590 --> 01:22:17,920
it's not because it was john greenwald

2270
01:22:20,550 --> 01:22:19,600
because i know i'm hated within that

2271
01:22:22,790 --> 01:22:20,560
circle

2272
01:22:24,550 --> 01:22:22,800
but it's anybody who reached out to them

2273
01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:24,560
they just don't want to talk about it

2274
01:22:28,149 --> 01:22:26,719
even investors during the meetings you

2275
01:22:31,270 --> 01:22:28,159
could they were very

2276
01:22:32,790 --> 01:22:31,280
vague about what they were doing army

2277
01:22:34,390 --> 01:22:32,800
was the only one that was giving me

2278
01:22:37,189 --> 01:22:34,400
actual answers

2279
01:22:40,470 --> 01:22:37,199
i pushed it as far as i could until

2280
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:40,480
foia exemptions apply and the corporate

2281
01:22:43,990 --> 01:22:42,080
uh entity the

2282
01:22:46,310 --> 01:22:44,000
intellectual property owner because it's

2283
01:22:47,830 --> 01:22:46,320
considered their intellectual property

2284
01:22:50,470 --> 01:22:47,840
they have to make the decision on what

2285
01:22:53,910 --> 01:22:50,480
they will release so i've done multiple

2286
01:22:56,149 --> 01:22:53,920
stories on it why i bring that up is how

2287
01:22:58,629 --> 01:22:56,159
to answer your question i've been very

2288
01:23:00,070 --> 01:22:58,639
upset to see that one of the pieces that

2289
01:23:02,629 --> 01:23:00,080
they have is something that i'm

2290
01:23:03,590 --> 01:23:02,639
personally connected to because i put

2291
01:23:05,750 --> 01:23:03,600
the

2292
01:23:07,750 --> 01:23:05,760
witness on television multiple times on

2293
01:23:10,790 --> 01:23:07,760
the history channel we conducted

2294
01:23:12,950 --> 01:23:10,800
scientific tests and profiled his story

2295
01:23:16,149 --> 01:23:12,960
because i was very drawn to it he passed

2296
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:16,159
multiple lie detector tests uh just an

2297
01:23:21,189 --> 01:23:19,040
honest guy a little controversial with

2298
01:23:23,110 --> 01:23:21,199
some of the things he did

2299
01:23:25,030 --> 01:23:23,120
trying to get exposure for the ufo thing

2300
01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:25,040
but his name was bob white

2301
01:23:30,070 --> 01:23:27,440
and all in all scientists were confused

2302
01:23:31,430 --> 01:23:30,080
by this piece they were genuinely and

2303
01:23:32,830 --> 01:23:31,440
passionately

2304
01:23:35,110 --> 01:23:32,840
into getting

2305
01:23:37,270 --> 01:23:35,120
answers and

2306
01:23:38,709 --> 01:23:37,280
the reason why i bring up bob who has

2307
01:23:41,590 --> 01:23:38,719
now passed away

2308
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:41,600
but larry who uh last name is c kander

2309
01:23:46,950 --> 01:23:44,560
who now owns the piece and is uh or was

2310
01:23:49,910 --> 01:23:46,960
working with ttsa on this particular

2311
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:49,920
program i feel that they got these are

2312
01:23:54,550 --> 01:23:52,560
my words uh just for the record i feel

2313
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:54,560
that they got screwed over i feel that

2314
01:23:59,510 --> 01:23:56,960
they were given promises that were not

2315
01:24:03,030 --> 01:23:59,520
kept and that's frustrating to me

2316
01:24:05,590 --> 01:24:03,040
because as a organization meaning ttsa

2317
01:24:07,350 --> 01:24:05,600
who's advocating for transparency uh

2318
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:07,360
who's saying hey give me your stuff lend

2319
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:09,760
me your stuff or sell me your stuff in

2320
01:24:13,430 --> 01:24:12,000
the case of linda molten howe uh they

2321
01:24:14,950 --> 01:24:13,440
get all this stuff

2322
01:24:17,189 --> 01:24:14,960
and then they just don't share anything

2323
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:17,199
or say anything or whatever

2324
01:24:19,350 --> 01:24:18,080
and

2325
01:24:21,430 --> 01:24:19,360
for those who aren't aware because it

2326
01:24:23,189 --> 01:24:21,440
didn't get national coverage but i wrote

2327
01:24:24,310 --> 01:24:23,199
a article

2328
01:24:26,709 --> 01:24:24,320
uh

2329
01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:26,719
getting the army to confirm

2330
01:24:33,189 --> 01:24:30,400
that they have run tests on the uap or

2331
01:24:36,629 --> 01:24:33,199
alleged uap material tests have been

2332
01:24:39,590 --> 01:24:36,639
conducted the last i've heard

2333
01:24:40,629 --> 01:24:39,600
no one was told in a ttsa stockholder

2334
01:24:42,629 --> 01:24:40,639
meeting

2335
01:24:45,669 --> 01:24:42,639
uh about the results

2336
01:24:47,910 --> 01:24:45,679
or anything and when i asked ttsa they

2337
01:24:49,669 --> 01:24:47,920
would not tell me a thing uh they told

2338
01:24:52,390 --> 01:24:49,679
me to go through their their annual

2339
01:24:54,149 --> 01:24:52,400
filed paperwork that was like all i got

2340
01:24:55,590 --> 01:24:54,159
during that story and what was

2341
01:24:58,229 --> 01:24:55,600
frustrating is you know anybody who

2342
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:58,239
looks at sec filings for a corporation

2343
01:25:02,470 --> 01:25:00,080
you're talking about just a ridiculous

2344
01:25:03,910 --> 01:25:02,480
amount of stuff to go through

2345
01:25:05,350 --> 01:25:03,920
and there was absolutely nothing to

2346
01:25:06,870 --> 01:25:05,360
answer my question so i was kind of led

2347
01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:06,880
on a wild goose chase

2348
01:25:12,709 --> 01:25:10,790
i always say not trying to be

2349
01:25:14,229 --> 01:25:12,719
long-winded so i apologize but hopefully

2350
01:25:17,590 --> 01:25:14,239
that that answered your question that

2351
01:25:20,790 --> 01:25:17,600
the ttsa now is not the vision

2352
01:25:22,950 --> 01:25:20,800
that people invested in in 2017

2353
01:25:24,870 --> 01:25:22,960
yeah i attended i'm not a shareholder a

2354
01:25:26,229 --> 01:25:24,880
few times i almost put in the minimum

2355
01:25:28,870 --> 01:25:26,239
but it went up each time and up each

2356
01:25:31,030 --> 01:25:28,880
time and i've got i've got a family um

2357
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:31,040
and my wife would have killed me but i

2358
01:25:35,510 --> 01:25:33,760
attended one of the the recent public

2359
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:35,520
calls where you could

2360
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:37,760
listen to tom and hal put off discussing

2361
01:25:40,550 --> 01:25:38,880
upcoming

2362
01:25:41,910 --> 01:25:40,560
announcements and largely focused on the

2363
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:41,920
media side of things monsters in

2364
01:25:46,310 --> 01:25:45,600
california the deal with uh lions gate

2365
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:46,320
uh

2366
01:25:50,550 --> 01:25:49,520
crushing old company um whichever that

2367
01:25:52,709 --> 01:25:50,560
one is and i think i might be getting it

2368
01:25:54,390 --> 01:25:52,719
wrong it's not lions gate um but yeah it

2369
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:54,400
was that sort of we're looking at

2370
01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:56,800
getting secret machines out and get more

2371
01:26:01,030 --> 01:25:58,800
books port anderson

2372
01:26:03,189 --> 01:26:01,040
and yeah it's moved massively in a

2373
01:26:07,510 --> 01:26:03,199
different direction and for me the issue

2374
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:10,229
lack of communication for he was really

2375
01:26:13,510 --> 01:26:12,000
happy shouting about investing he was

2376
01:26:15,030 --> 01:26:13,520
really happy doing

2377
01:26:17,430 --> 01:26:15,040
not the podcast circuit he'd done some

2378
01:26:18,790 --> 01:26:17,440
interviews and talking about what they

2379
01:26:20,470 --> 01:26:18,800
wanted to achieve and we're all in this

2380
01:26:22,149 --> 01:26:20,480
together and like you say the

2381
01:26:24,950 --> 01:26:22,159
transparency really seemed to lack from

2382
01:26:26,790 --> 01:26:24,960
to the stars um and i think that goes

2383
01:26:27,830 --> 01:26:26,800
back again to even carry like you

2384
01:26:29,830 --> 01:26:27,840
mentioned for some of those early

2385
01:26:31,830 --> 01:26:29,840
interviews from what i heard but that's

2386
01:26:33,910 --> 01:26:31,840
that's can i hear say so yeah

2387
01:26:35,910 --> 01:26:33,920
disappointing from to the stars however

2388
01:26:37,430 --> 01:26:35,920
i kind of watched our media wing with

2389
01:26:39,669 --> 01:26:37,440
intrigue gonna look forward to monsters

2390
01:26:41,910 --> 01:26:39,679
in california to see what what tom puts

2391
01:26:43,750 --> 01:26:41,920
out because he clearly knows some things

2392
01:26:46,229 --> 01:26:43,760
that we're not privy to just in the

2393
01:26:48,070 --> 01:26:46,239
circles he he walked in and to see how

2394
01:26:49,750 --> 01:26:48,080
he puts that across on the big screen

2395
01:26:52,709 --> 01:26:49,760
maybe it's a different form of the

2396
01:26:54,709 --> 01:26:52,719
disclosure and we're yet to see

2397
01:26:56,070 --> 01:26:54,719
john i want to do a bit of an impromptu

2398
01:26:57,430 --> 01:26:56,080
a quick fire around with you because

2399
01:26:59,669 --> 01:26:57,440
i've got some lesser questions i do want

2400
01:27:01,030 --> 01:26:59,679
to get to and a lot of topics that i

2401
01:27:02,390 --> 01:27:01,040
could be here for two hours more with

2402
01:27:04,470 --> 01:27:02,400
you um

2403
01:27:06,950 --> 01:27:04,480
first off gary nolan's interview on

2404
01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:06,960
tucker carlson and got rave reviews from

2405
01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:09,199
people um again i stay at the politics

2406
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:11,280
of it i'm not based in the us i don't

2407
01:27:15,270 --> 01:27:13,199
particularly know or care about people's

2408
01:27:17,350 --> 01:27:15,280
leanings left or right i stay out of

2409
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:17,360
that stuff in the uk because politicians

2410
01:27:20,550 --> 01:27:18,719
are politicians for me they'll end up

2411
01:27:22,790 --> 01:27:20,560
doing the same kind of things anyway

2412
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:22,800
however gary nolan i thought came across

2413
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:24,239
really well i think he's really

2414
01:27:27,910 --> 01:27:26,000
charismatic he knows how to speak to his

2415
01:27:30,310 --> 01:27:27,920
audiences and he can take himself up he

2416
01:27:32,790 --> 01:27:30,320
can bring himself down um he mentioned

2417
01:27:34,950 --> 01:27:32,800
particularly though pilots and personnel

2418
01:27:36,629 --> 01:27:34,960
who have medical records that were

2419
01:27:38,950 --> 01:27:36,639
classified after incidents where they

2420
01:27:41,270 --> 01:27:38,960
were injured allegedly by uap

2421
01:27:43,189 --> 01:27:41,280
um army was denying medical benefits

2422
01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:43,199
that was the render incident it was

2423
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:44,480
being talked about

2424
01:27:48,310 --> 01:27:46,080
are there things there that you've heard

2425
01:27:50,470 --> 01:27:48,320
you can fire or plan to fire based on

2426
01:27:52,149 --> 01:27:50,480
those records being discussed

2427
01:27:53,910 --> 01:27:52,159
sure so medical records are completely

2428
01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:53,920
off limits to foia so there's no way to

2429
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:56,239
really confirm that uh the

2430
01:28:01,430 --> 01:27:59,280
to to kind of go to dr nolan's point

2431
01:28:03,669 --> 01:28:01,440
he's likely referring to john burroughs

2432
01:28:06,149 --> 01:28:03,679
in the rendezvous incident and

2433
01:28:07,910 --> 01:28:06,159
the medical effects that he had after uh

2434
01:28:09,910 --> 01:28:07,920
and the trouble that he had to access

2435
01:28:14,070 --> 01:28:09,920
his own medical records but when it

2436
01:28:15,990 --> 01:28:14,080
comes to foia and anything medical it's

2437
01:28:18,550 --> 01:28:16,000
off it's off limits so

2438
01:28:20,149 --> 01:28:18,560
to your question nothing i i or any foia

2439
01:28:22,390 --> 01:28:20,159
requester could do

2440
01:28:25,110 --> 01:28:22,400
you need to go to the person that the

2441
01:28:28,390 --> 01:28:25,120
medical records are about and then uh

2442
01:28:29,189 --> 01:28:28,400
file requests in in different ways

2443
01:28:31,350 --> 01:28:29,199
cool

2444
01:28:33,189 --> 01:28:31,360
nasa is obviously entering the game bill

2445
01:28:35,110 --> 01:28:33,199
nelson administrator has been briefed on

2446
01:28:37,430 --> 01:28:35,120
the subject in his previous role within

2447
01:28:39,110 --> 01:28:37,440
government and is now pushing things

2448
01:28:40,870 --> 01:28:39,120
forward it seems on the outset they've

2449
01:28:43,270 --> 01:28:40,880
got their own independent study has been

2450
01:28:44,790 --> 01:28:43,280
announced how do you see this going do

2451
01:28:46,629 --> 01:28:44,800
you think that's the temporary measure

2452
01:28:48,310 --> 01:28:46,639
you mentioned counter intelligence you

2453
01:28:50,629 --> 01:28:48,320
know whatever kind of counter

2454
01:28:52,550 --> 01:28:50,639
intelligence operation this could be are

2455
01:28:53,990 --> 01:28:52,560
nasa part of that or are nasa just

2456
01:28:55,350 --> 01:28:54,000
jumping on the bandwagon they see

2457
01:28:56,550 --> 01:28:55,360
rolling down the hill

2458
01:28:58,550 --> 01:28:56,560
well i

2459
01:29:01,110 --> 01:28:58,560
have really dug in on nasa documents

2460
01:29:03,510 --> 01:29:01,120
i've done quite a few presentations uh

2461
01:29:06,070 --> 01:29:03,520
about them simply because i've received

2462
01:29:08,470 --> 01:29:06,080
now literally thousands of pages from

2463
01:29:10,229 --> 01:29:08,480
nasa seeing their inner workings

2464
01:29:12,310 --> 01:29:10,239
i believe that there's an aspect of nasa

2465
01:29:14,790 --> 01:29:12,320
that really is concerned about these

2466
01:29:17,189 --> 01:29:14,800
phenomena that they are

2467
01:29:19,990 --> 01:29:17,199
cleared from a security clearance angle

2468
01:29:21,430 --> 01:29:20,000
to hear more including and obviously

2469
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:21,440
director nelson

2470
01:29:25,830 --> 01:29:23,440
but the problem with the public study is

2471
01:29:27,590 --> 01:29:25,840
that they are not venturing into a

2472
01:29:30,870 --> 01:29:27,600
classified arena

2473
01:29:33,430 --> 01:29:30,880
and in short to make it very quick that

2474
01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:33,440
in my opinion from a scientific

2475
01:29:36,629 --> 01:29:34,560
perspective

2476
01:29:39,030 --> 01:29:36,639
flaws the study

2477
01:29:42,070 --> 01:29:39,040
and why i say that is because the people

2478
01:29:45,270 --> 01:29:42,080
that are involved publicly in the study

2479
01:29:46,870 --> 01:29:45,280
they are not touching on classified data

2480
01:29:48,550 --> 01:29:46,880
and they are not encroaching in the

2481
01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:48,560
classified arena

2482
01:29:54,070 --> 01:29:51,120
so if their sensors pick up something

2483
01:29:56,550 --> 01:29:54,080
that potentially is classified the way

2484
01:29:59,110 --> 01:29:56,560
that everything that i've read thus far

2485
01:30:00,310 --> 01:29:59,120
they will not be cleared to solve that

2486
01:30:02,470 --> 01:30:00,320
mystery

2487
01:30:04,629 --> 01:30:02,480
so from a scientific perspective what do

2488
01:30:07,030 --> 01:30:04,639
you what what does that do

2489
01:30:09,510 --> 01:30:07,040
and for me that will skew the data that

2490
01:30:11,430 --> 01:30:09,520
will skew the statistics because to an

2491
01:30:14,070 --> 01:30:11,440
uncleared individual working on a

2492
01:30:16,310 --> 01:30:14,080
program or a study that will become

2493
01:30:18,310 --> 01:30:16,320
public and they were touting you know

2494
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:18,320
nothing classified here no clearance

2495
01:30:23,510 --> 01:30:20,400
requirement this is all you know

2496
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:23,520
essentially unclassified that's great

2497
01:30:28,390 --> 01:30:25,840
but to properly do a scientific study of

2498
01:30:30,470 --> 01:30:28,400
these phenomena you have to understand

2499
01:30:33,430 --> 01:30:30,480
that you're going to run into something

2500
01:30:35,830 --> 01:30:33,440
classified you know what is it the x37

2501
01:30:38,470 --> 01:30:35,840
that's up there or something to

2502
01:30:40,149 --> 01:30:38,480
something of that nature that if nasa's

2503
01:30:41,270 --> 01:30:40,159
sensors pick something up that they

2504
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:41,280
shouldn't

2505
01:30:45,669 --> 01:30:42,960
that you need to be cleared to

2506
01:30:48,310 --> 01:30:45,679
understand that particular event is

2507
01:30:50,470 --> 01:30:48,320
something classified solved but

2508
01:30:53,189 --> 01:30:50,480
classified so not necessarily

2509
01:30:55,270 --> 01:30:53,199
unidentified so for me i think the nasa

2510
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:55,280
study is flawed i'm sure the nasa

2511
01:31:00,470 --> 01:30:57,600
scientists will disagree with me on that

2512
01:31:02,550 --> 01:31:00,480
but if if you're if you're

2513
01:31:05,270 --> 01:31:02,560
using instrumentation and data that's up

2514
01:31:07,510 --> 01:31:05,280
there looking at us you are going to

2515
01:31:10,470 --> 01:31:07,520
capture something eventually of

2516
01:31:13,430 --> 01:31:10,480
classified nature so to deny yourself

2517
01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:13,440
that data and access in my opinion you

2518
01:31:17,030 --> 01:31:15,360
flawed the study

2519
01:31:19,430 --> 01:31:17,040
taking a brief step outside of the

2520
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:19,440
conversation we've been having what do

2521
01:31:23,350 --> 01:31:21,920
you think of the idea that consciousness

2522
01:31:25,110 --> 01:31:23,360
has a role to play in the connection

2523
01:31:27,110 --> 01:31:25,120
with the ufo subject is that something

2524
01:31:28,790 --> 01:31:27,120
you've come across often within the

2525
01:31:31,030 --> 01:31:28,800
documents you receive

2526
01:31:33,030 --> 01:31:31,040
not within the documents that i receive

2527
01:31:35,270 --> 01:31:33,040
uh from what i've heard from other

2528
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:35,280
people who have experienced things yeah

2529
01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:37,760
it seems like consciousness plays a role

2530
01:31:41,590 --> 01:31:39,360
in this um

2531
01:31:44,310 --> 01:31:41,600
definitely outside of my wheelhouse of

2532
01:31:47,110 --> 01:31:44,320
expertise but i think i've heard it more

2533
01:31:49,270 --> 01:31:47,120
than enough times outside of documents

2534
01:31:51,510 --> 01:31:49,280
to not be surprised to one day learn

2535
01:31:52,950 --> 01:31:51,520
consciousness plays a role

2536
01:31:54,470 --> 01:31:52,960
you sort of touched on this earlier but

2537
01:31:57,189 --> 01:31:54,480
i think this is a nice one to narrow

2538
01:31:59,830 --> 01:31:57,199
down do you think ultimately there is an

2539
01:32:04,870 --> 01:31:59,840
element of this phenomenon which is

2540
01:32:08,310 --> 01:32:06,629
i'm i'm sorry kind of broke up in my ear

2541
01:32:10,629 --> 01:32:08,320
there can you say that one more time

2542
01:32:12,709 --> 01:32:10,639
bad timing um do you think there's an

2543
01:32:15,590 --> 01:32:12,719
element of this phenomenon which is

2544
01:32:17,110 --> 01:32:15,600
extraterrestrial and as visiting earth

2545
01:32:19,030 --> 01:32:17,120
yeah and sorry about it it probably was

2546
01:32:20,950 --> 01:32:19,040
bad timing but my yeah

2547
01:32:22,870 --> 01:32:20,960
piece kind of garbled there

2548
01:32:24,870 --> 01:32:22,880
so uh for me

2549
01:32:26,709 --> 01:32:24,880
i'm a type of person that needs to see

2550
01:32:28,070 --> 01:32:26,719
you to believe and i've never had an

2551
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:28,080
experience where i've looked at

2552
01:32:31,030 --> 01:32:29,760
something and went you know what

2553
01:32:33,189 --> 01:32:31,040
that is otherworldly it's

2554
01:32:35,910 --> 01:32:33,199
extraterrestrial so that's my my

2555
01:32:37,510 --> 01:32:35,920
personal answer i don't know when you

2556
01:32:39,910 --> 01:32:37,520
look at the information and you look at

2557
01:32:42,149 --> 01:32:39,920
the documentation i can tell you as a

2558
01:32:43,830 --> 01:32:42,159
researcher the researcher part of me

2559
01:32:45,750 --> 01:32:43,840
uh can't rule it out

2560
01:32:47,270 --> 01:32:45,760
i believe that there's enough documented

2561
01:32:50,709 --> 01:32:47,280
evidence to support that there's

2562
01:32:53,030 --> 01:32:50,719
technology beyond what america and even

2563
01:32:55,669 --> 01:32:53,040
the world will admit to i think that

2564
01:32:58,550 --> 01:32:55,679
there is technology that is being uh

2565
01:33:00,310 --> 01:32:58,560
displayed in documentation that is

2566
01:33:03,910 --> 01:33:00,320
that that is years

2567
01:33:05,750 --> 01:33:03,920
if not in some cases decades beyond

2568
01:33:09,189 --> 01:33:05,760
what it is at the time one particular

2569
01:33:11,350 --> 01:33:09,199
quick example uh was i i did a small

2570
01:33:14,070 --> 01:33:11,360
write-up and video on this was that if

2571
01:33:15,669 --> 01:33:14,080
you calculate the speed of what was seen

2572
01:33:19,270 --> 01:33:15,679
uh and also

2573
01:33:22,709 --> 01:33:19,280
uh verified on on radar it was like 50

2574
01:33:24,550 --> 01:33:22,719
years advanced of how it was performing

2575
01:33:26,470 --> 01:33:24,560
so there's enough cases of that where

2576
01:33:28,870 --> 01:33:26,480
you look at it and go okay

2577
01:33:29,669 --> 01:33:28,880
is this really all some massive cover-up

2578
01:33:31,750 --> 01:33:29,679
of

2579
01:33:33,669 --> 01:33:31,760
classified technology whether it be

2580
01:33:36,310 --> 01:33:33,679
british american

2581
01:33:38,870 --> 01:33:36,320
japanese chinese or russian or is this

2582
01:33:41,110 --> 01:33:38,880
something else so i've seen enough to

2583
01:33:45,510 --> 01:33:41,120
not rule it out and it's on the table

2584
01:33:47,110 --> 01:33:45,520
can i tell you i'm convinced no i cannot

2585
01:33:48,950 --> 01:33:47,120
john let's fire through some listener

2586
01:33:51,750 --> 01:33:48,960
questions and thank you to everyone who

2587
01:33:53,430 --> 01:33:51,760
sent these over uh we do have about four

2588
01:33:54,870 --> 01:33:53,440
james and jamie's but they are all

2589
01:33:56,470 --> 01:33:54,880
different people it just happened to be

2590
01:33:58,790 --> 01:33:56,480
a popular name getting in touch with you

2591
01:34:00,550 --> 01:33:58,800
john so we'll kick off with the james uh

2592
01:34:02,870 --> 01:34:00,560
could you ask john what congressional

2593
01:34:04,950 --> 01:34:02,880
correspondence can be fired that might

2594
01:34:07,189 --> 01:34:04,960
give insight into recent classified

2595
01:34:09,990 --> 01:34:07,199
briefings is it handled differently than

2596
01:34:11,990 --> 01:34:10,000
dod classification and any avenues you

2597
01:34:13,910 --> 01:34:12,000
can think of for stuff to quote unquote

2598
01:34:14,790 --> 01:34:13,920
slip out

2599
01:34:17,270 --> 01:34:14,800
so

2600
01:34:18,550 --> 01:34:17,280
congressional records are off limits to

2601
01:34:21,110 --> 01:34:18,560
foia

2602
01:34:23,350 --> 01:34:21,120
if they communicate with an agency

2603
01:34:25,189 --> 01:34:23,360
they're open it's open season you can

2604
01:34:27,110 --> 01:34:25,199
foia those

2605
01:34:28,950 --> 01:34:27,120
can you learn stuff from classified

2606
01:34:32,629 --> 01:34:28,960
briefings likely not in their

2607
01:34:35,590 --> 01:34:32,639
correspondence they likely will not in a

2608
01:34:37,030 --> 01:34:35,600
unclassified correspondence send a

2609
01:34:39,350 --> 01:34:37,040
document over

2610
01:34:41,350 --> 01:34:39,360
um generally what you're going to learn

2611
01:34:43,270 --> 01:34:41,360
in in my experience with this and i've

2612
01:34:44,550 --> 01:34:43,280
dug in on a couple hearing or excuse me

2613
01:34:46,709 --> 01:34:44,560
uh briefings

2614
01:34:48,709 --> 01:34:46,719
is that you're going to learn more from

2615
01:34:50,870 --> 01:34:48,719
the internal

2616
01:34:52,629 --> 01:34:50,880
planning and banter

2617
01:34:54,790 --> 01:34:52,639
of that briefing

2618
01:34:57,430 --> 01:34:54,800
than from the congressional side if that

2619
01:34:58,709 --> 01:34:57,440
makes sense so you foia emails you foia

2620
01:35:00,550 --> 01:34:58,719
material

2621
01:35:02,709 --> 01:35:00,560
i've received one of the powerpoint

2622
01:35:05,510 --> 01:35:02,719
presentations heavily redacted but one

2623
01:35:07,910 --> 01:35:05,520
of the powerpoint presentations of

2624
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:07,920
a classified uap briefing

2625
01:35:12,470 --> 01:35:10,320
so that's where you're going to learn

2626
01:35:14,149 --> 01:35:12,480
what's going on in the briefing

2627
01:35:16,310 --> 01:35:14,159
one last thing quickly i'll throw out

2628
01:35:19,270 --> 01:35:16,320
which i uh haven't really talked about

2629
01:35:21,109 --> 01:35:19,280
this much but i have an open case for

2630
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:21,119
what i discovered through nasa going

2631
01:35:26,830 --> 01:35:24,880
back to nasa records was a recorded

2632
01:35:29,750 --> 01:35:26,840
but classified

2633
01:35:32,470 --> 01:35:29,760
um presentation

2634
01:35:35,910 --> 01:35:32,480
by jay stratton who at the time was the

2635
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:35,920
head of the uap task force he recorded

2636
01:35:40,229 --> 01:35:37,840
the classified briefing

2637
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:40,239
for people like nasa director bill

2638
01:35:45,910 --> 01:35:43,440
nelson to watch at his own leisure

2639
01:35:47,910 --> 01:35:45,920
the minute i had that in writing

2640
01:35:50,470 --> 01:35:47,920
it made it open season for me to go

2641
01:35:52,550 --> 01:35:50,480
after it because now i know it exists

2642
01:35:55,750 --> 01:35:52,560
it's not a congressional record

2643
01:35:57,270 --> 01:35:55,760
and it is foyable so i have an open case

2644
01:35:59,109 --> 01:35:57,280
for that so that's where you're really

2645
01:36:01,669 --> 01:35:59,119
going to get the secrets not from the

2646
01:36:03,350 --> 01:36:01,679
congressional side because foia uh can't

2647
01:36:04,950 --> 01:36:03,360
touch him

2648
01:36:05,910 --> 01:36:04,960
i'll say james thank you for your

2649
01:36:07,750 --> 01:36:05,920
question

2650
01:36:09,350 --> 01:36:07,760
that was answered by john before about

2651
01:36:11,590 --> 01:36:09,360
what he thinks the phenomena may be

2652
01:36:13,109 --> 01:36:11,600
multiple things strafe your question was

2653
01:36:16,229 --> 01:36:13,119
answered about nasa before thank you

2654
01:36:18,390 --> 01:36:16,239
very much question from barry barry asks

2655
01:36:20,709 --> 01:36:18,400
has john come across any hint of other

2656
01:36:23,750 --> 01:36:20,719
classified government uap projects

2657
01:36:25,910 --> 01:36:23,760
alternative to ata or osap that may be

2658
01:36:27,750 --> 01:36:25,920
hiding crashed at uap vehicles or

2659
01:36:30,070 --> 01:36:27,760
studying them

2660
01:36:32,950 --> 01:36:30,080
not on the crashes and i've looked i've

2661
01:36:34,870 --> 01:36:32,960
tried to get people on the records um

2662
01:36:37,109 --> 01:36:34,880
that have made those claims like a dr

2663
01:36:39,030 --> 01:36:37,119
eric davis uh who doesn't care for me

2664
01:36:40,870 --> 01:36:39,040
much but um

2665
01:36:42,870 --> 01:36:40,880
getting those types of people on the

2666
01:36:44,390 --> 01:36:42,880
record with sworn statements is key to

2667
01:36:46,950 --> 01:36:44,400
trying to find those those crash

2668
01:36:48,870 --> 01:36:46,960
retrievals and nobody has done that so

2669
01:36:50,709 --> 01:36:48,880
when it comes to crash retrievals no

2670
01:36:52,870 --> 01:36:50,719
when it comes to ufo investigation

2671
01:36:53,910 --> 01:36:52,880
programs i had discovered an air force

2672
01:36:54,629 --> 01:36:53,920
manual

2673
01:36:56,310 --> 01:36:54,639
in

2674
01:36:57,669 --> 01:36:56,320
early 2000

2675
01:37:01,350 --> 01:36:57,679
that had

2676
01:37:02,470 --> 01:37:01,360
no program name per se but it was a full

2677
01:37:05,270 --> 01:37:02,480
outline

2678
01:37:07,669 --> 01:37:05,280
on air force pilots reporting ufo

2679
01:37:10,149 --> 01:37:07,679
sightings in the air how to report them

2680
01:37:12,390 --> 01:37:10,159
what to jot down where to send it to and

2681
01:37:14,709 --> 01:37:12,400
so on and that was on the books for

2682
01:37:17,590 --> 01:37:14,719
quite a few years and for quite a few

2683
01:37:19,590 --> 01:37:17,600
years i tried to track down what records

2684
01:37:23,109 --> 01:37:19,600
were submitted under that air force

2685
01:37:26,310 --> 01:37:23,119
manual specifically it was called 10-206

2686
01:37:29,430 --> 01:37:26,320
and they're essentially all forwarded to

2687
01:37:31,510 --> 01:37:29,440
norad which is off limits to the foia

2688
01:37:33,990 --> 01:37:31,520
so how convenient that the one place

2689
01:37:36,149 --> 01:37:34,000
that was receiving all of the air force

2690
01:37:38,870 --> 01:37:36,159
ufo encounters

2691
01:37:41,109 --> 01:37:38,880
is off limits to the foia i eventually

2692
01:37:44,310 --> 01:37:41,119
went through the canadian government got

2693
01:37:45,990 --> 01:37:44,320
stacks of ufo sighting reports

2694
01:37:48,550 --> 01:37:46,000
specifically they're called service

2695
01:37:50,709 --> 01:37:48,560
reports cirvis

2696
01:37:53,910 --> 01:37:50,719
and it kind of proved that norad was

2697
01:37:55,750 --> 01:37:53,920
lying to me so not necessarily a project

2698
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:55,760
going back to that question but there

2699
01:38:01,750 --> 01:37:58,080
have definitely been very

2700
01:38:04,550 --> 01:38:01,760
i would say rarely bantered about

2701
01:38:05,430 --> 01:38:04,560
protocols for reporting ufos

2702
01:38:07,109 --> 01:38:05,440
that

2703
01:38:09,270 --> 01:38:07,119
the results are seemingly kind of

2704
01:38:11,590 --> 01:38:09,280
elusive that that they're putting these

2705
01:38:12,950 --> 01:38:11,600
documents in places that the foia can't

2706
01:38:14,870 --> 01:38:12,960
touch

2707
01:38:16,390 --> 01:38:14,880
this next question john i think some of

2708
01:38:18,470 --> 01:38:16,400
your haters might think you've sent this

2709
01:38:19,669 --> 01:38:18,480
one in yourself under an alias but this

2710
01:38:21,109 --> 01:38:19,679
is from tom and i'm going to read it

2711
01:38:23,270 --> 01:38:21,119
word for word

2712
01:38:25,189 --> 01:38:23,280
everyone knows john greenwald jr is the

2713
01:38:27,430 --> 01:38:25,199
king of the foyer request

2714
01:38:29,750 --> 01:38:27,440
my question is are there parts of the

2715
01:38:31,990 --> 01:38:29,760
government that are exempt from foia and

2716
01:38:34,149 --> 01:38:32,000
if you could ask a forbidden department

2717
01:38:37,270 --> 01:38:34,159
a question what department would you ask

2718
01:38:38,390 --> 01:38:37,280
and what would the question be

2719
01:38:40,070 --> 01:38:38,400
um

2720
01:38:41,910 --> 01:38:40,080
that's funny that you said that you said

2721
01:38:43,669 --> 01:38:41,920
that the king part was luis elizondo

2722
01:38:44,390 --> 01:38:43,679
that's a call to he's the one that said

2723
01:38:51,430 --> 01:38:44,400
that

2724
01:38:53,109 --> 01:38:51,440
a part of the foia

2725
01:38:55,189 --> 01:38:53,119
and can you word that again not yeah

2726
01:38:56,870 --> 01:38:55,199
sure it was um are there parts of the

2727
01:39:00,550 --> 01:38:56,880
government that are exempt from foia you

2728
01:39:03,270 --> 01:39:02,149
and the other part would be the white

2729
01:39:06,070 --> 01:39:03,280
house

2730
01:39:09,189 --> 01:39:06,080
um everything else from a federal level

2731
01:39:12,550 --> 01:39:09,199
again congress is excluded uh but uh

2732
01:39:15,030 --> 01:39:12,560
federal agencies military branches they

2733
01:39:16,629 --> 01:39:15,040
are all subject to foia on the federal

2734
01:39:18,790 --> 01:39:16,639
and military level

2735
01:39:20,229 --> 01:39:18,800
so the speculative part of the question

2736
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:20,239
is if you could ask a forbidden

2737
01:39:23,750 --> 01:39:22,320
department a question what department

2738
01:39:25,430 --> 01:39:23,760
would you ask and what would the

2739
01:39:27,270 --> 01:39:25,440
question be

2740
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:27,280
right now dealing i mean there's a lot

2741
01:39:31,669 --> 01:39:29,280
of different topics i deal with but

2742
01:39:34,229 --> 01:39:31,679
obviously we're here talking about ufos

2743
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:34,239
i i think right now that my pressing

2744
01:39:38,550 --> 01:39:36,560
question would be to the air force

2745
01:39:39,750 --> 01:39:38,560
uh and the question be would be where

2746
01:39:40,950 --> 01:39:39,760
are you guys

2747
01:39:43,030 --> 01:39:40,960
you know where are you in this

2748
01:39:45,990 --> 01:39:43,040
conversation because i mentioned the

2749
01:39:47,910 --> 01:39:46,000
2000 manual they at the time were the

2750
01:39:49,189 --> 01:39:47,920
only ones with a manual talking about

2751
01:39:51,669 --> 01:39:49,199
ufos

2752
01:39:53,270 --> 01:39:51,679
now fast forward 20 plus years

2753
01:39:55,510 --> 01:39:53,280
they're the ones that are absent from

2754
01:39:57,030 --> 01:39:55,520
the ufo conversation yet everybody else

2755
01:39:59,350 --> 01:39:57,040
seems to be in it

2756
01:40:02,629 --> 01:39:59,360
so i i think right now if you were to

2757
01:40:04,229 --> 01:40:02,639
ask me in august of 2022 i'd go to the

2758
01:40:06,629 --> 01:40:04,239
air force and go where are you guys in

2759
01:40:08,629 --> 01:40:06,639
this conversation

2760
01:40:10,310 --> 01:40:08,639
question from jaden and this one's a

2761
01:40:12,470 --> 01:40:10,320
little bit more speculative so it might

2762
01:40:14,070 --> 01:40:12,480
be one for the 15 year old john

2763
01:40:17,189 --> 01:40:14,080
i'd like to know what john's thoughts

2764
01:40:18,550 --> 01:40:17,199
are on what these ufos are here to do as

2765
01:40:20,070 --> 01:40:18,560
i imagine you would have spent a lot of

2766
01:40:22,229 --> 01:40:20,080
time thinking about this over the

2767
01:40:24,390 --> 01:40:22,239
decades

2768
01:40:25,510 --> 01:40:24,400
i think the easy answer would be to

2769
01:40:28,470 --> 01:40:25,520
watch

2770
01:40:30,950 --> 01:40:28,480
and why i say that is you can put in an

2771
01:40:33,750 --> 01:40:30,960
extraterrestrial origin or a foreign

2772
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:33,760
power origin and that answer will work

2773
01:40:38,149 --> 01:40:36,320
so it's a safe way to put it i think

2774
01:40:40,229 --> 01:40:38,159
reconnaissance again no matter the

2775
01:40:42,310 --> 01:40:40,239
source is is something that we are

2776
01:40:45,430 --> 01:40:42,320
seeing here because with the military

2777
01:40:47,830 --> 01:40:45,440
reports they're what above

2778
01:40:50,149 --> 01:40:47,840
military exercises training exercises

2779
01:40:51,750 --> 01:40:50,159
they're going into military bases so i

2780
01:40:54,149 --> 01:40:51,760
think it's safe to say that whatever

2781
01:40:56,390 --> 01:40:54,159
this technology is

2782
01:40:57,990 --> 01:40:56,400
regardless of the source reconnaissance

2783
01:41:00,550 --> 01:40:58,000
is a big part of it

2784
01:41:03,350 --> 01:41:00,560
um this is a different show but i mean

2785
01:41:06,149 --> 01:41:03,360
if for speculation reasons if there is

2786
01:41:08,310 --> 01:41:06,159
that extraterrestrial

2787
01:41:10,310 --> 01:41:08,320
route to all of this

2788
01:41:13,350 --> 01:41:10,320
why would they come here and the biggest

2789
01:41:15,189 --> 01:41:13,360
question for me is why would they care

2790
01:41:17,590 --> 01:41:15,199
and that for me is one of the biggest

2791
01:41:19,030 --> 01:41:17,600
and hardest questions to tackle

2792
01:41:21,510 --> 01:41:19,040
that we would think that they're

2793
01:41:23,590 --> 01:41:21,520
watching us and and so on but why like

2794
01:41:25,270 --> 01:41:23,600
why would they care it's i use the antel

2795
01:41:27,430 --> 01:41:25,280
analogy you know do we fly out to the

2796
01:41:30,070 --> 01:41:27,440
middle of the sahara to watch an ant

2797
01:41:32,149 --> 01:41:30,080
hill colony and and not say anything and

2798
01:41:34,149 --> 01:41:32,159
and just look or do we go down and plant

2799
01:41:36,790 --> 01:41:34,159
a flag and say hey we're here to share

2800
01:41:38,629 --> 01:41:36,800
technology with you no so

2801
01:41:40,790 --> 01:41:38,639
there's a lot of

2802
01:41:42,870 --> 01:41:40,800
in that speculative way to look at it

2803
01:41:44,229 --> 01:41:42,880
there's a lot of unanswered and very

2804
01:41:46,390 --> 01:41:44,239
difficult

2805
01:41:48,149 --> 01:41:46,400
aspects to tackle of that question

2806
01:41:50,550 --> 01:41:48,159
because the human race is very

2807
01:41:53,270 --> 01:41:50,560
egotistical we we want to believe that

2808
01:41:55,910 --> 01:41:53,280
aliens would come and save us from our

2809
01:41:58,310 --> 01:41:55,920
own nuclear warheads right and and well

2810
01:42:00,390 --> 01:41:58,320
they can't have nuclear power because

2811
01:42:02,390 --> 01:42:00,400
that makes them a threat to the galactic

2812
01:42:04,550 --> 01:42:02,400
neighborhood no it doesn't i mean that's

2813
01:42:07,189 --> 01:42:04,560
a grain of sand into an ocean you know i

2814
01:42:09,990 --> 01:42:07,199
mean nuclear weapons to a civilization

2815
01:42:11,669 --> 01:42:10,000
that's traversing the stars is nothing

2816
01:42:13,830 --> 01:42:11,679
but it's egotistical for us to think

2817
01:42:15,350 --> 01:42:13,840
they want to save us

2818
01:42:17,830 --> 01:42:15,360
and it's a fascinating question to

2819
01:42:20,310 --> 01:42:17,840
explore which i will spare you from me

2820
01:42:22,070 --> 01:42:20,320
going out on the tangents but it is fun

2821
01:42:24,709 --> 01:42:22,080
to speculate because we don't have the

2822
01:42:26,950 --> 01:42:24,719
answer to it and we want to believe

2823
01:42:29,910 --> 01:42:26,960
certain things we just

2824
01:42:31,430 --> 01:42:29,920
in my opinion can't blindly accept them

2825
01:42:32,709 --> 01:42:31,440
we'll keep the speculation for the next

2826
01:42:34,950 --> 01:42:32,719
appearance john's i'd love to have you

2827
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:34,960
back on two more questions though

2828
01:42:39,590 --> 01:42:37,600
one of the other james's uh james asks

2829
01:42:41,669 --> 01:42:39,600
what is the most likely scenario you see

2830
01:42:43,430 --> 01:42:41,679
unraveling and being disclosed in the

2831
01:42:47,350 --> 01:42:43,440
next five years so where do you see the

2832
01:42:51,030 --> 01:42:49,750
contrary to what i think people believe

2833
01:42:54,149 --> 01:42:51,040
right now

2834
01:42:57,030 --> 01:42:54,159
i believe secrecy is deepening

2835
01:42:59,030 --> 01:42:57,040
uh i believe it's it's actually provable

2836
01:42:59,990 --> 01:42:59,040
that secrecy has deepened

2837
01:43:01,510 --> 01:43:00,000
um

2838
01:43:03,109 --> 01:43:01,520
where i think we're gonna be in five

2839
01:43:05,750 --> 01:43:03,119
years i mean i hope we have more

2840
01:43:07,270 --> 01:43:05,760
hearings and won't surprise me if we do

2841
01:43:10,149 --> 01:43:07,280
it won't surprise me if we have more

2842
01:43:12,550 --> 01:43:10,159
reports that's great uh the problem is

2843
01:43:13,990 --> 01:43:12,560
is what will we get in the reports and

2844
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:14,000
i'm not i'm not sure

2845
01:43:18,149 --> 01:43:16,080
uh when you look at the secrecy and how

2846
01:43:19,990 --> 01:43:18,159
they handle it specifically a document i

2847
01:43:22,470 --> 01:43:20,000
got late last year

2848
01:43:24,629 --> 01:43:22,480
proves my point it's called the security

2849
01:43:26,390 --> 01:43:24,639
classification guide and essentially

2850
01:43:28,709 --> 01:43:26,400
what an scg is

2851
01:43:30,390 --> 01:43:28,719
is that it takes any particular topic

2852
01:43:31,669 --> 01:43:30,400
that's important to

2853
01:43:33,910 --> 01:43:31,679
classification

2854
01:43:35,750 --> 01:43:33,920
and outlines how and when and what

2855
01:43:37,750 --> 01:43:35,760
protocols to classify information that's

2856
01:43:40,070 --> 01:43:37,760
a nutshell way to put it this was

2857
01:43:42,870 --> 01:43:40,080
specifically on uap

2858
01:43:45,750 --> 01:43:42,880
almost the entire thing is redacted they

2859
01:43:47,910 --> 01:43:45,760
do not want to share anything on uap

2860
01:43:50,229 --> 01:43:47,920
anything on uap is automatically

2861
01:43:51,510 --> 01:43:50,239
classified we know this because we have

2862
01:43:53,910 --> 01:43:51,520
it in writing from the pentagon

2863
01:43:56,070 --> 01:43:53,920
spokespeople that anything that comes in

2864
01:43:57,750 --> 01:43:56,080
is automatically classified that means

2865
01:43:58,629 --> 01:43:57,760
you have to go through legal means to

2866
01:44:00,870 --> 01:43:58,639
get it

2867
01:44:03,669 --> 01:44:00,880
so it's

2868
01:44:06,149 --> 01:44:03,679
a clear indicator that in the coming

2869
01:44:09,830 --> 01:44:06,159
months and years it will be incredibly

2870
01:44:12,070 --> 01:44:09,840
difficult to extract uap information

2871
01:44:13,830 --> 01:44:12,080
even though they're saying uap

2872
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:13,840
even though they're talking generally

2873
01:44:17,430 --> 01:44:15,840
about it even though they may even have

2874
01:44:19,910 --> 01:44:17,440
reports about it

2875
01:44:21,189 --> 01:44:19,920
at the end of the day the specifics are

2876
01:44:23,430 --> 01:44:21,199
classified so it's going to be a

2877
01:44:25,430 --> 01:44:23,440
challenge i hope i'm wrong but i think

2878
01:44:27,590 --> 01:44:25,440
you're just going to see secrecy

2879
01:44:29,270 --> 01:44:27,600
strengthen and deepen here in the next

2880
01:44:31,109 --> 01:44:29,280
couple years

2881
01:44:33,109 --> 01:44:31,119
something that we should hear more about

2882
01:44:35,830 --> 01:44:33,119
in the future is the final question from

2883
01:44:38,070 --> 01:44:35,840
mike um have you put in a foia request

2884
01:44:39,990 --> 01:44:38,080
for anything related to luella's ondo's

2885
01:44:41,030 --> 01:44:40,000
ig complaint

2886
01:44:44,629 --> 01:44:41,040
i have

2887
01:44:46,870 --> 01:44:44,639
the ig complaint itself is exempt uh

2888
01:44:50,229 --> 01:44:46,880
that's exemption b7

2889
01:44:51,750 --> 01:44:50,239
essentially if they do take it uh to

2890
01:44:54,870 --> 01:44:51,760
um

2891
01:44:57,270 --> 01:44:54,880
a investigation level uh then

2892
01:44:59,270 --> 01:44:57,280
uh that's that's one angle if they don't

2893
01:45:02,470 --> 01:44:59,280
that's another but regardless it is

2894
01:45:04,390 --> 01:45:02,480
exempt from release so i was denied it

2895
01:45:05,669 --> 01:45:04,400
coming out obviously the new york post

2896
01:45:07,030 --> 01:45:05,679
put it on their

2897
01:45:08,790 --> 01:45:07,040
youtube channel

2898
01:45:09,990 --> 01:45:08,800
and you can download it from there

2899
01:45:13,910 --> 01:45:10,000
redacted

2900
01:45:16,870 --> 01:45:13,920
names that were not public so you can

2901
01:45:18,870 --> 01:45:16,880
get it in that way i did get emails so

2902
01:45:21,189 --> 01:45:18,880
for those who missed that story

2903
01:45:23,189 --> 01:45:21,199
i had received internal communications

2904
01:45:26,950 --> 01:45:23,199
within the dod ig

2905
01:45:28,390 --> 01:45:26,960
that were about luis elizondo and his

2906
01:45:30,550 --> 01:45:28,400
complaint

2907
01:45:32,149 --> 01:45:30,560
i can prove that he was interviewed even

2908
01:45:34,070 --> 01:45:32,159
though we already knew that he had said

2909
01:45:37,030 --> 01:45:34,080
it but that's really kind of the only

2910
01:45:38,550 --> 01:45:37,040
thing in the emails revealed um i

2911
01:45:42,870 --> 01:45:38,560
pointed out some other things but again

2912
01:45:44,950 --> 01:45:42,880
that another show for you um but the the

2913
01:45:48,229 --> 01:45:44,960
point i'm trying to make is is that it's

2914
01:45:51,350 --> 01:45:48,239
very hard to get information on his

2915
01:45:53,510 --> 01:45:51,360
complaint uh just this morning of the

2916
01:45:56,709 --> 01:45:53,520
recording of this with you i'm working

2917
01:45:59,510 --> 01:45:56,719
on a video about his complaint and doing

2918
01:46:02,790 --> 01:45:59,520
a deep dive into the complaint the

2919
01:46:05,270 --> 01:46:02,800
claims they're in the names we can see

2920
01:46:07,750 --> 01:46:05,280
and just kind of really exploring in

2921
01:46:08,870 --> 01:46:07,760
depth i talked to the department of

2922
01:46:11,189 --> 01:46:08,880
defense

2923
01:46:13,030 --> 01:46:11,199
office of the inspector general today

2924
01:46:15,510 --> 01:46:13,040
i talked to them about the uap

2925
01:46:18,310 --> 01:46:15,520
evaluation they announced last year they

2926
01:46:21,189 --> 01:46:18,320
say that it is still ongoing and that

2927
01:46:23,030 --> 01:46:21,199
they have no eta on completion

2928
01:46:25,350 --> 01:46:23,040
since i had their ear

2929
01:46:26,470 --> 01:46:25,360
i asked them about the elizondo

2930
01:46:28,950 --> 01:46:26,480
complaint

2931
01:46:31,750 --> 01:46:28,960
and i said can you guys

2932
01:46:33,189 --> 01:46:31,760
uh confirm that an investigation even

2933
01:46:34,950 --> 01:46:33,199
has taken place

2934
01:46:37,910 --> 01:46:34,960
because that was claimed in the daily

2935
01:46:40,070 --> 01:46:37,920
mail that gary reed was ousted claimed

2936
01:46:41,270 --> 01:46:40,080
by luis elizondo that is that his

2937
01:46:42,310 --> 01:46:41,280
complaint

2938
01:46:44,229 --> 01:46:42,320
uh

2939
01:46:46,229 --> 01:46:44,239
triggered that

2940
01:46:47,669 --> 01:46:46,239
if that was true then an investigation

2941
01:46:49,430 --> 01:46:47,679
has taken place

2942
01:46:51,510 --> 01:46:49,440
and completed they're not going to take

2943
01:46:53,990 --> 01:46:51,520
action on an investigation that's

2944
01:46:55,430 --> 01:46:54,000
ongoing they will not confirm or deny

2945
01:46:58,149 --> 01:46:55,440
they're doing anything with it so it's

2946
01:47:00,390 --> 01:46:58,159
very very difficult to get information

2947
01:47:02,870 --> 01:47:00,400
on um so i wanted to at least tell you

2948
01:47:05,750 --> 01:47:02,880
that i'm still pushing but to your

2949
01:47:08,470 --> 01:47:05,760
listeners question it's near impossible

2950
01:47:11,350 --> 01:47:08,480
to get anything for uh personal privacy

2951
01:47:12,950 --> 01:47:11,360
reasons and law enforcement reasons

2952
01:47:15,910 --> 01:47:12,960
but you've got a video about that on the

2953
01:47:19,669 --> 01:47:15,920
horizon which are always useful for yeah

2954
01:47:21,590 --> 01:47:19,679
i just finished the slide deck

2955
01:47:22,629 --> 01:47:21,600
for the most part finished it

2956
01:47:24,550 --> 01:47:22,639
probably

2957
01:47:26,470 --> 01:47:24,560
uh last night

2958
01:47:28,390 --> 01:47:26,480
i would say it's done

2959
01:47:30,709 --> 01:47:28,400
so we'll see i'm i'm set to record it

2960
01:47:32,950 --> 01:47:30,719
hopefully soon but with my slide decks i

2961
01:47:34,709 --> 01:47:32,960
always edit and do more

2962
01:47:37,590 --> 01:47:34,719
then it's never good enough i'm kind of

2963
01:47:39,669 --> 01:47:37,600
ocd in that way so hopefully though i'll

2964
01:47:41,590 --> 01:47:39,679
be able to uh

2965
01:47:43,270 --> 01:47:41,600
to to really finalize it but last night

2966
01:47:45,830 --> 01:47:43,280
i think i think i'm comfortable with it

2967
01:47:47,990 --> 01:47:45,840
and i'll record the video and we'll see

2968
01:47:50,470 --> 01:47:48,000
what people think people have been

2969
01:47:52,070 --> 01:47:50,480
really requesting the deep dive

2970
01:47:53,590 --> 01:47:52,080
i think it's interesting i mean i think

2971
01:47:56,950 --> 01:47:53,600
that there's a lot of question marks

2972
01:47:59,109 --> 01:47:56,960
from the ig complaint once it came out

2973
01:48:01,430 --> 01:47:59,119
so my aim is just to kind of deep dive

2974
01:48:02,550 --> 01:48:01,440
into it go through it and kind of point

2975
01:48:04,550 --> 01:48:02,560
out

2976
01:48:05,669 --> 01:48:04,560
some of the question marks that are in

2977
01:48:08,470 --> 01:48:05,679
there

2978
01:48:09,910 --> 01:48:08,480
have loved to have got to with you but

2979
01:48:11,590 --> 01:48:09,920
just time constraints have been very

2980
01:48:13,430 --> 01:48:11,600
generous with your time and no problem

2981
01:48:16,070 --> 01:48:13,440
this will already go out in two parts

2982
01:48:17,270 --> 01:48:16,080
the the guy hotel memo video you've just

2983
01:48:18,470 --> 01:48:17,280
released was really interesting i

2984
01:48:20,310 --> 01:48:18,480
watched that today

2985
01:48:21,750 --> 01:48:20,320
shades of the wilson david memo within

2986
01:48:23,189 --> 01:48:21,760
the discussion of that as well so i

2987
01:48:25,189 --> 01:48:23,199
recommend people check that one out i'll

2988
01:48:26,790 --> 01:48:25,199
put the link in description i'm sure

2989
01:48:28,390 --> 01:48:26,800
many of you already subscribed to the

2990
01:48:30,310 --> 01:48:28,400
black vault on youtube and check out the

2991
01:48:32,390 --> 01:48:30,320
website make sure you do again all those

2992
01:48:33,830 --> 01:48:32,400
details will be in the description john

2993
01:48:34,870 --> 01:48:33,840
it's been great having you on and i

2994
01:48:36,629 --> 01:48:34,880
certainly look forward to having you on

2995
01:48:38,950 --> 01:48:36,639
again in the future my pleasure i had a

2996
01:48:40,950 --> 01:48:38,960
blast thank you

2997
01:48:43,430 --> 01:48:40,960
if like me you have ever had to go

2998
01:48:45,510 --> 01:48:43,440
looking for a designer illustrator or

2999
01:48:47,430 --> 01:48:45,520
voiceover artist it can be difficult to

3000
01:48:49,669 --> 01:48:47,440
know where to start that's where the

3001
01:48:52,149 --> 01:48:49,679
folks at fiverr have created the world's

3002
01:48:54,629 --> 01:48:52,159
largest marketplace for digital services

3003
01:48:56,870 --> 01:48:54,639
with an incredible database of talented

3004
01:48:59,030 --> 01:48:56,880
freelancers to cover every one of your

3005
01:49:01,590 --> 01:48:59,040
business needs whether you need a new

3006
01:49:03,109 --> 01:49:01,600
website a voiceover for your podcast or

3007
01:49:05,669 --> 01:49:03,119
someone to manage your social media

3008
01:49:07,910 --> 01:49:05,679
accounts fiverr has you covered the

3009
01:49:10,550 --> 01:49:07,920
unique term for a service offered by a

3010
01:49:12,709 --> 01:49:10,560
seller on fiverr is called a gig when

3011
01:49:14,709 --> 01:49:12,719
creating gigs sellers can choose their

3012
01:49:16,790 --> 01:49:14,719
starting price point sellers can take

3013
01:49:19,109 --> 01:49:16,800
this a step further and offer gig

3014
01:49:20,390 --> 01:49:19,119
packages to buyers using those gig

3015
01:49:22,470 --> 01:49:20,400
packages

3016
01:49:24,709 --> 01:49:22,480
these contain multiple price ranges and

3017
01:49:27,589 --> 01:49:24,719
sellers can offer buyers various and

3018
01:49:29,510 --> 01:49:27,599
tailored service packages in this way

3019
01:49:31,270 --> 01:49:29,520
buyers can pick and choose from all

3020
01:49:33,589 --> 01:49:31,280
that's offered according to their

3021
01:49:35,750 --> 01:49:33,599
particular requirements there truly is

3022
01:49:37,830 --> 01:49:35,760
something for every budget with your

3023
01:49:39,910 --> 01:49:37,840
payments protected every time that's

3024
01:49:42,070 --> 01:49:39,920
really important your payment won't be

3025
01:49:43,750 --> 01:49:42,080
released until you approve the work so

3026
01:49:45,910 --> 01:49:43,760
there's no paying for work that isn't of

3027
01:49:47,510 --> 01:49:45,920
the required standard giving you the

3028
01:49:49,990 --> 01:49:47,520
complete control you need to get the

3029
01:49:52,070 --> 01:49:50,000
perfect product for your business and

3030
01:49:55,030 --> 01:49:52,080
for more peace of mind fiverr support

3031
01:49:57,270 --> 01:49:55,040
team are available 24 7 to answer any

3032
01:49:59,030 --> 01:49:57,280
questions or provide the help you need

3033
01:50:01,430 --> 01:49:59,040
so if you've been fishing around the net

3034
01:50:03,990 --> 01:50:01,440
for the right solution stop use the

3035
01:50:08,070 --> 01:50:04,000
perfect solution and go to fiverr that's

3036
01:50:09,830 --> 01:50:08,080
f i v e r r and find the perfect

3037
01:50:12,390 --> 01:50:09,840
freelance services for your business

3038
01:50:15,189 --> 01:50:12,400
today you can help support this podcast

3039
01:50:19,270 --> 01:50:15,199
by using my special link zen dot ai

3040
01:50:23,030 --> 01:50:19,280
forward slash ufo five that's z e n dot

3041
01:50:25,589 --> 01:50:23,040
a i slash ufo and the number five the

3042
01:50:28,310 --> 01:50:25,599
next time you need to book a freelancer

3043
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:28,320
details are in the description

3044
01:50:32,390 --> 01:50:30,400
that is all for this week's show thank

3045
01:50:34,390 --> 01:50:32,400
you very much for listening please

3046
01:50:37,030 --> 01:50:34,400
remember to leave the podcast a review

3047
01:50:39,350 --> 01:50:37,040
on your chosen platform you can like

3048
01:50:41,270 --> 01:50:39,360
retweet and subscribe that would all be

3049
01:50:43,430 --> 01:50:41,280
very much appreciated the shows are

3050
01:50:44,950 --> 01:50:43,440
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

3051
01:50:47,430 --> 01:50:44,960
more and more you can sign up at

3052
01:50:50,149 --> 01:50:47,440
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

3053
01:50:52,390 --> 01:50:50,159
podcast to access shows ad free as well

3054
01:50:55,189 --> 01:50:52,400
please get in touch on twitter facebook

3055
01:50:58,390 --> 01:50:55,199
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

3056
01:51:00,470 --> 01:50:58,400
twitter it's at ufouapam

3057
01:51:03,530 --> 01:51:00,480
and again folks as always keep looking

3058
01:51:17,910 --> 01:51:03,540
up you never know what you might see

3059
01:51:21,510 --> 01:51:20,229
like alice was for the parliament effect

3060
01:51:23,030 --> 01:51:21,520
the little hovered right inside

3061
01:51:25,030 --> 01:51:23,040
of my window when i shoved out the

3062
01:51:30,670 --> 01:51:25,040
screen he made it an issue i don't think

3063
01:51:30,680 --> 01:51:45,830
[Music]

3064
01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:53,220
cuz

3065
01:51:53,230 --> 01:52:01,030
[Music]

3066
01:52:04,550 --> 01:52:02,870
on my head and everything was weird and

3067
01:52:06,070 --> 01:52:04,560
everything was red i helped out with my

3068
01:52:14,430 --> 01:52:06,080
boys they thought this was noise they

3069
01:52:14,440 --> 01:52:28,310
[Music]

3070
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:34,220
over there

3071
01:53:11,030 --> 01:52:48,630
[Music]

3072
01:53:22,140 --> 01:53:11,040
it wasn't a tic-tac and not quite a